4 ms·

Could you elaborate the link of the Arab Spring to the 2008 financial crisis? I can't think of a link and neither does the English Wikipedia article.

by m_st 8y ago

thdxr 8y ago
Probably referring to the narrative of rising commodity costs driving revolt. Not a very substantiated view as commodity costs in the area have been worse in the not to distant past
- hef19898 8y ago
  I think that is always realitve. Sure, in absolute numbers that might be true (I didn't check), in relative terms not so much if I remember well. At least in some countries affected by the Arab Spring people started to demonstrate against increasing bread Prices. That and general uncertainity combined did not cause the revolts but definetly a factor. What thfollowed was a bad handling of the crisis by the Western powers. And with all the convenient dictators, viable road-blocks for everyone trying to get to Europe, in North Africa gone already existing refugees had open venues to Europe. Add to that all the People trying to get out of the civil wars that followed after the revolts in certain countries and you can explain a big part of the so called refugee crisis. Unfortunately this crisis, despite being basically over in Terms of numbers, is playing an ever increasing roll in European politics. And I personally don't like the results a single bit, not every country is realizing what voting for righ-wing populists means like the French did. Germany certainlly isn't.
  - majewsky 8y ago
    > And I personally don't like the results a single bit, not every country is realizing what voting for righ-wing populists means like the French did. Germany certainlly isn't. The AfD is still below 20% nationwide. And there's a glimmer of hope: Opinion polls suggest that the majority of Germans are increasingly frustrated that refugees and immigration politics are about the only topic of national discourse, even though we have a ton of issues that need addressing (affordable housing, shortage of nurses, sustainable pensions, crumbling infrastructure, the energy revolution, etc.).
    - hef19898 8y ago
      I Keep the fingers crossed, that's for sure! Let's see how the Bavarian state elections go down in November. I kind of hope that the CSU's drift top the right will not be appreciated by voters.
nicktelford 8y ago
Here's a piece on the wider subject: https://fpif.org/the_economics_of_the_arab_spring/ https://fpif.org/the_economics_of_the_arab_spring/ It doesn't directly make the connection, but it does allude to it: > The recent global financial, food, and energy crises accentuated the failure of economic liberalization to adequately spread the region’s wealth. Significant declines in the tourism, financial, and real estate sectors due to the financial crisis crippled the few well-functioning economic engines. In other words: these already economically and politically unstable nations were tipped over the edge by the shockwaves of the global financial crisis. I also wonder whether the impact of a decline in tourism is being understated; both Tunisia and Egypt are/were tremendously popular holiday destinations among Europeans, and with the rise in austerity, I can easily imagine a decline in this tourism causing economic problems in those nations.
- corv 8y ago
  The decline in tourism was a direct result of destabilizing the Middle East and North Africa due to wars and the resulting increase of terrorism.
  - madengr 8y ago
    The terrorism is due to Islam. Unfortunately, dictators are needed to keep Islam in check, as it’s wholly incompatible with democracy.
  - hef19898 8y ago
    Kind of a vicious cycle. First, Europeans travelled less, then these countries became "unsafe", people travelled even less to these countries aggrevating the existing Problems making these countries even unsafer. Whatever was there first, well I can't tell. Not that in matters as it doesn't change the result.
- m_st 8y ago
  As corv just wrote, the decline in tourism is a result of the Arab Sprint and the instability, let alone wars, it produced. Not the other way around. The linked article from 2011 is great reading in hindsight. > This might be the last and best opportunity for the West to facilitate the creation of another “island of peace” — a sympathetic democratic community in the much-troubled Arab world. If there ever was such a plan, it failed miserably. Anyway I'm no expert on the subject, just a witness of the time and I don't remember anything that links these two.

Could you elaborate the link of the Arab Spring to the 2008 financial crisis? I can't think of a link and neither does the English Wikipedia article.

by m_st 8y ago

Could you elaborate the link of the Arab Spring to the 2008 financial crisis? I can't think of a link and neither does the English Wikipedia article.

thdxr 8y ago

Probably referring to the narrative of rising commodity costs driving revolt. Not a very substantiated view as commodity costs in the area have been worse in the not to distant past

hef19898 8y ago
I think that is always realitve. Sure, in absolute numbers that might be true (I didn't check), in relative terms not so much if I remember well. At least in some countries affected by the Arab Spring people started to demonstrate against increasing bread Prices. That and general uncertainity combined did not cause the revolts but definetly a factor. What thfollowed was a bad handling of the crisis by the Western powers. And with all the convenient dictators, viable road-blocks for everyone trying to get to Europe, in North Africa gone already existing refugees had open venues to Europe. Add to that all the People trying to get out of the civil wars that followed after the revolts in certain countries and you can explain a big part of the so called refugee crisis. Unfortunately this crisis, despite being basically over in Terms of numbers, is playing an ever increasing roll in European politics. And I personally don't like the results a single bit, not every country is realizing what voting for righ-wing populists means like the French did. Germany certainlly isn't.
- majewsky 8y ago
  > And I personally don't like the results a single bit, not every country is realizing what voting for righ-wing populists means like the French did. Germany certainlly isn't. The AfD is still below 20% nationwide. And there's a glimmer of hope: Opinion polls suggest that the majority of Germans are increasingly frustrated that refugees and immigration politics are about the only topic of national discourse, even though we have a ton of issues that need addressing (affordable housing, shortage of nurses, sustainable pensions, crumbling infrastructure, the energy revolution, etc.).
  - hef19898 8y ago
    I Keep the fingers crossed, that's for sure! Let's see how the Bavarian state elections go down in November. I kind of hope that the CSU's drift top the right will not be appreciated by voters.

nicktelford 8y ago

Here's a piece on the wider subject: https://fpif.org/the_economics_of_the_arab_spring/ https://fpif.org/the_economics_of_the_arab_spring/ It doesn't directly make the connection, but it does allude to it: > The recent global financial, food, and energy crises accentuated the failure of economic liberalization to adequately spread the region’s wealth. Significant declines in the tourism, financial, and real estate sectors due to the financial crisis crippled the few well-functioning economic engines. In other words: these already economically and politically unstable nations were tipped over the edge by the shockwaves of the global financial crisis. I also wonder whether the impact of a decline in tourism is being understated; both Tunisia and Egypt are/were tremendously popular holiday destinations among Europeans, and with the rise in austerity, I can easily imagine a decline in this tourism causing economic problems in those nations.

corv 8y ago
The decline in tourism was a direct result of destabilizing the Middle East and North Africa due to wars and the resulting increase of terrorism.
- madengr 8y ago
  The terrorism is due to Islam. Unfortunately, dictators are needed to keep Islam in check, as it’s wholly incompatible with democracy.
- hef19898 8y ago
  Kind of a vicious cycle. First, Europeans travelled less, then these countries became "unsafe", people travelled even less to these countries aggrevating the existing Problems making these countries even unsafer. Whatever was there first, well I can't tell. Not that in matters as it doesn't change the result.
m_st 8y ago
As corv just wrote, the decline in tourism is a result of the Arab Sprint and the instability, let alone wars, it produced. Not the other way around. The linked article from 2011 is great reading in hindsight. > This might be the last and best opportunity for the West to facilitate the creation of another “island of peace” — a sympathetic democratic community in the much-troubled Arab world. If there ever was such a plan, it failed miserably. Anyway I'm no expert on the subject, just a witness of the time and I don't remember anything that links these two.