5 ms·

More than ‘know thyself’: on all the other Delphic maxims

64 points by diodorus 8y ago

hacknat 8y ago
“Beget from noble routes” to me can be translated: Accomplish your goals in an honorable way. Something akin to: “The ends don’t justify the means”.
- WhatIsDukkha 8y ago
  I agree that was what jumped into mind when I read it as well. I guess it's obvious but - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims
- buboard 8y ago
  The phrase is: "Ἐξ εὐγενῶν γέννα" Which roughly means "seek to become relatives with noble people" or alternatively "seek to create with noble ingredients"
  - phs318u 8y ago
    Definitely the latter. One could almost paraphrase as “the ends reflect the means... therefore use noble means”
    - buboard 8y ago
      well techically it talks about the beginning and the means. In any case how can we be sure it's not the first ?
irrational 8y ago
"Master wedding-feasts" A maxim about Ancient Greek wedding crashers? "Admire oracles" - Ha ha! "Keep deeply the top secret" - how is this one simply baffling (per the article)? I'm not sure if they are referring to religious secrets or state secrets, but either way, how is encouraging people to keep secrets baffling?
- philwelch 8y ago
  Not just any secrets, though, but the singular top secret in particular.
  - WorldMaker 8y ago
    An interesting translation question of "top secret" used as a phrase here, as in "Top Secret", by a translator looking for "Confidential" or similar English relative word, or if it is a matter of "top" as in biggest/most important single secret. Also, yes, it took the English language many years to come up with the pithier "Loose lips sink ships".
  - base3 8y ago
    The root certificate
- propertius 8y ago
  Ἄρρητον means "what is not to be spoken". I'd say the maxim is purposely ambiguous rather than baffling. It could mean "shameful", "horrible", or "sacred".
anvandare 8y ago
All 147 maxims are available here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims#147_Delphic_maxims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims#147_Delphic_max... The last is, fittingly, the most meaningful of them all: On reaching the end be without sorrow.
- ggchappell 8y ago
  "Do not stop to be thrifty" -- I imagine that should be "Do not stop being thrifty"? "Master wedding-feasts" -- what does that mean? "Grieve for no one" seems odd.
  - anvandare 8y ago
    For the second, Γάμος is like the word "marriage", meaning both the occasion of getting married and the state of being married. So a better translation would be "Master (your) marriage". Given the Ancient Greeks' dim view of women, I'm guessing it boils down to "Wear the pants at home." For the third, I think it should be "Cause no grief onto [others]" (ἐπί+ dat.)
  - gojomo 8y ago
    Do not stop to be thrifty My guess is that rather than "always be thrifty", this is more like "don't let cost-optimizations stop forward progress". So, somewhat more like "penny-wise, pound-foolish" or "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" than "always be thrifty". Master wedding-feasts My guess here would be a meaning like "take full advantage of important ceremonial celebration feasts", with possible connotations of both "enjoy them fully" but also "don't over-imbibe or take them for granted". Grieve for no one Could very well be dependent on the exact form of 'grieve' in the original formulation; if a word meaning to mope or remain backward-looking (as opposed to honoring/learning in memories), it might really be about doing the right kind of mourning. Or, if the emphasis was on 'one' unique person, it might mean never to focus grief on any singular loss, as loss is universal – sort of related for "ask not for whom the bell tolls – it tolls for thee".
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > Do not stop to be thrifty I think this might be a mistranslation. Maxim #118 has the same last two words in Greek, and is translated as "Do not abandon honor". So #122 is probably better translated as "Do not abandon thrift", or "Do not forget to be thrifty", or something like that.
yesenadam 8y ago
Gee I'd never seen those (the 147) before. It's not far from a super-summarized version of Gracian's Art of Worldly Wisdom. I was lucky enough to visit Delphi when I was 13... The Delphic Oracle said no-one was wiser than Socrates; Socrates thought he wasn't wise, but came to understand that although no-one else was either, only he knew that he knew nothing. In epistemology (theory of knowledge) class at uni (philosophy course) once I said to the lecturer that I knew nothing. I really believed I knew nothing for certain. He said, not very charitably, "Don't you know your name?". Luckily no-one said that to Socrates. Well, maybe they did. Although thinking about that now, the Oracle only said that no-one was wiser than Socrates, which is compatible with all men being fools equally. And the Oracle did give similarly veiled, tricky prophecies: "Croesus...asked if he should make war on the Persians and if he should take to himself any allied force. The oracles to whom he sent this question included those at Delphi and Thebes. Both oracles gave the same response, that if Croesus made war on the Persians, he would destroy a mighty empire...However, it was his empire, not that of the Persians, that was defeated, fulfilling the prophecy but not his interpretation of it." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oracular_statements_from_Delphi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oracular_statements_fr...

64 points by diodorus 8y ago

“Beget from noble routes” to me can be translated: Accomplish your goals in an honorable way. Something akin to: “The ends don’t justify the means”.

WhatIsDukkha 8y ago
I agree that was what jumped into mind when I read it as well. I guess it's obvious but - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims
buboard 8y ago
The phrase is: "Ἐξ εὐγενῶν γέννα" Which roughly means "seek to become relatives with noble people" or alternatively "seek to create with noble ingredients"
- phs318u 8y ago
  Definitely the latter. One could almost paraphrase as “the ends reflect the means... therefore use noble means”
  - buboard 8y ago
    well techically it talks about the beginning and the means. In any case how can we be sure it's not the first ?

irrational 8y ago

"Master wedding-feasts" A maxim about Ancient Greek wedding crashers? "Admire oracles" - Ha ha! "Keep deeply the top secret" - how is this one simply baffling (per the article)? I'm not sure if they are referring to religious secrets or state secrets, but either way, how is encouraging people to keep secrets baffling?

philwelch 8y ago
Not just any secrets, though, but the singular top secret in particular.
- WorldMaker 8y ago
  An interesting translation question of "top secret" used as a phrase here, as in "Top Secret", by a translator looking for "Confidential" or similar English relative word, or if it is a matter of "top" as in biggest/most important single secret. Also, yes, it took the English language many years to come up with the pithier "Loose lips sink ships".
- base3 8y ago
  The root certificate
propertius 8y ago
Ἄρρητον means "what is not to be spoken". I'd say the maxim is purposely ambiguous rather than baffling. It could mean "shameful", "horrible", or "sacred".

anvandare 8y ago

All 147 maxims are available here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims#147_Delphic_maxims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims#147_Delphic_max... The last is, fittingly, the most meaningful of them all: On reaching the end be without sorrow.

ggchappell 8y ago
"Do not stop to be thrifty" -- I imagine that should be "Do not stop being thrifty"? "Master wedding-feasts" -- what does that mean? "Grieve for no one" seems odd.
- anvandare 8y ago
  For the second, Γάμος is like the word "marriage", meaning both the occasion of getting married and the state of being married. So a better translation would be "Master (your) marriage". Given the Ancient Greeks' dim view of women, I'm guessing it boils down to "Wear the pants at home." For the third, I think it should be "Cause no grief onto [others]" (ἐπί+ dat.)
- gojomo 8y ago
  Do not stop to be thrifty My guess is that rather than "always be thrifty", this is more like "don't let cost-optimizations stop forward progress". So, somewhat more like "penny-wise, pound-foolish" or "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" than "always be thrifty". Master wedding-feasts My guess here would be a meaning like "take full advantage of important ceremonial celebration feasts", with possible connotations of both "enjoy them fully" but also "don't over-imbibe or take them for granted". Grieve for no one Could very well be dependent on the exact form of 'grieve' in the original formulation; if a word meaning to mope or remain backward-looking (as opposed to honoring/learning in memories), it might really be about doing the right kind of mourning. Or, if the emphasis was on 'one' unique person, it might mean never to focus grief on any singular loss, as loss is universal – sort of related for "ask not for whom the bell tolls – it tolls for thee".
- pdonis 8y ago
  > Do not stop to be thrifty I think this might be a mistranslation. Maxim #118 has the same last two words in Greek, and is translated as "Do not abandon honor". So #122 is probably better translated as "Do not abandon thrift", or "Do not forget to be thrifty", or something like that.

yesenadam 8y ago

Gee I'd never seen those (the 147) before. It's not far from a super-summarized version of Gracian's Art of Worldly Wisdom. I was lucky enough to visit Delphi when I was 13... The Delphic Oracle said no-one was wiser than Socrates; Socrates thought he wasn't wise, but came to understand that although no-one else was either, only he knew that he knew nothing. In epistemology (theory of knowledge) class at uni (philosophy course) once I said to the lecturer that I knew nothing. I really believed I knew nothing for certain. He said, not very charitably, "Don't you know your name?". Luckily no-one said that to Socrates. Well, maybe they did. Although thinking about that now, the Oracle only said that no-one was wiser than Socrates, which is compatible with all men being fools equally. And the Oracle did give similarly veiled, tricky prophecies: "Croesus...asked if he should make war on the Persians and if he should take to himself any allied force. The oracles to whom he sent this question included those at Delphi and Thebes. Both oracles gave the same response, that if Croesus made war on the Persians, he would destroy a mighty empire...However, it was his empire, not that of the Persians, that was defeated, fulfilling the prophecy but not his interpretation of it." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oracular_statements_from_Delphi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oracular_statements_fr...