5 ms·

Didn't like the sentence 'Poor mental health affects half of all employees', as if employers were responsible.

by epx 8y ago

kneel 8y ago
'Work culture' is an unnatural form of menticide that has increasingly encroached into our lives. Many employers try to hold it back but the general trend has been to select for self sacrificing drones, despite the effects on mental health. The labor strikes have been glossed over in history but they happened for very good reason. IMO they'll happen again.
flipTrain 8y ago
They are legally referred to as employees. You are tying 'employers' out of thin air. I find that fascinating!
- acct1771 8y ago
  They're also legally referred to as citizens of a society.
onion2k 8y ago
In the context of stress at work, who would be responsible if it's not the employer? For the majority of people their employer wants to pay them as little as possible and get as much effort back as they can, with rigid and bureaucratic rules in place because there's basically no trust in the business. That's stressful. I think the majority of us here on HN are very fortunate in the sense that we either work for an employer who's invested in making sure we're not overly stressed (startups and tech companies are way better than most businesses), or we are the employer and we get to choose how much stress we take on. For the majority of healthy people, especially without kids, work and their employer is their primary source of stress.
- epx 8y ago
  This is almost a tautology; of course not working, not doing anything at all would be less stressful. But work is way less stressful today than, say, two generations ago, yet people are falling like flies. I don't deny the problem but the problem is elsewhere.
  - onion2k 8y ago
    not doing anything at all would be less stressful On the contrary, people who are out of work find the loneliness, isolation and lack of feeling like a productive person incredibly stressful.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Two generations ago one income was enough for a family and work-work and family-work were split among a couple. Today people are expected to just do both.
    - briandear 8y ago
      One income is still enough. It’s a question of priorities and lifestyle expectations.
      - adrianN 8y ago
        Not if you want to stay middle class.
- TangoTrotFox 8y ago
  In my opinion, a lot of is going to boil down the social issues we've collectively headed towards. Before getting there you really have to consider how much vastly better the work situation is for most Americans today than practically ever before. Today the average American only works 1,765 hours a year. [1] That is less than practically any time in our history. And real compensation is also higher than it's ever been. [2] You'll find the sensationalistic articles constantly reference only real median wages. That misses the great increase in compensation - bonuses, matched retirement/investment plans, insurance, profit-sharing/equity plans, paid time off, paid sick leave days, etc. Only considering the hourly wage by itself, and median at that, is not informative and even disingenuous. The point is we work less and we get more. If you transplanted these conditions back to previous eras, it'd be like imposing a utopia on people! But what else has changed? Now literally the majority of Americans remaining single. And there are also more people living alone than ever before. And when there are married households most have both husband and wife away at work each day. I don't really understand how people manage to live like this, and it seems to me the answer is that they aren't really managing to! A wife is somebody you can rely on, and you somebody they can rely on, in a way far different than a friend or fling. It'd sound metaphorical but perhaps it's quite accurate to say you both literally keep each other sane! Countless studies have shown greater mental health and even greater life expectancy among married couples. We've gone from a hardworking childbearing married nation, to a nation of single childless households working fewer hours than ever before. And this has been, at least in part, precipitated by a variety of social changes we have mostly supported. In any case, not something I'm going to blame on employers. [1] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG [2] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB
  - projektir 8y ago
    It should be blamed on employers, though (and the systemic, if you will, but employers have more power here and I believe blaming the higher power entities is more appropriate than lower power entities). Employers are why more people have to work. A lot of what you're referring to relies on a chunk of people not working, and that has been eliminated, you just didn't notice because a lot of this work was not called work. > Today the average American only works 1,765 hours a year. That is less than practically any time in our history. For one, you're forgetting a certain half of all workers that just was conveniently never counted. For another, it's a question of scale. It's like, going from 100% to 90%. It will always look good, but it's not that big of a difference in practice. You have to evaluate it objectively. And, objectively, it just sucks.

Didn't like the sentence 'Poor mental health affects half of all employees', as if employers were responsible.

by epx 8y ago

Didn't like the sentence 'Poor mental health affects half of all employees', as if employers were responsible.

'Work culture' is an unnatural form of menticide that has increasingly encroached into our lives. Many employers try to hold it back but the general trend has been to select for self sacrificing drones, despite the effects on mental health. The labor strikes have been glossed over in history but they happened for very good reason. IMO they'll happen again.

flipTrain 8y ago

They are legally referred to as employees. You are tying 'employers' out of thin air. I find that fascinating!

acct1771 8y ago
They're also legally referred to as citizens of a society.

onion2k 8y ago

In the context of stress at work, who would be responsible if it's not the employer? For the majority of people their employer wants to pay them as little as possible and get as much effort back as they can, with rigid and bureaucratic rules in place because there's basically no trust in the business. That's stressful. I think the majority of us here on HN are very fortunate in the sense that we either work for an employer who's invested in making sure we're not overly stressed (startups and tech companies are way better than most businesses), or we are the employer and we get to choose how much stress we take on. For the majority of healthy people, especially without kids, work and their employer is their primary source of stress.

epx 8y ago
This is almost a tautology; of course not working, not doing anything at all would be less stressful. But work is way less stressful today than, say, two generations ago, yet people are falling like flies. I don't deny the problem but the problem is elsewhere.
- onion2k 8y ago
  not doing anything at all would be less stressful On the contrary, people who are out of work find the loneliness, isolation and lack of feeling like a productive person incredibly stressful.
- adrianN 8y ago
  Two generations ago one income was enough for a family and work-work and family-work were split among a couple. Today people are expected to just do both.
  - briandear 8y ago
    One income is still enough. It’s a question of priorities and lifestyle expectations.
    - adrianN 8y ago
      Not if you want to stay middle class.
TangoTrotFox 8y ago
In my opinion, a lot of is going to boil down the social issues we've collectively headed towards. Before getting there you really have to consider how much vastly better the work situation is for most Americans today than practically ever before. Today the average American only works 1,765 hours a year. [1] That is less than practically any time in our history. And real compensation is also higher than it's ever been. [2] You'll find the sensationalistic articles constantly reference only real median wages. That misses the great increase in compensation - bonuses, matched retirement/investment plans, insurance, profit-sharing/equity plans, paid time off, paid sick leave days, etc. Only considering the hourly wage by itself, and median at that, is not informative and even disingenuous. The point is we work less and we get more. If you transplanted these conditions back to previous eras, it'd be like imposing a utopia on people! But what else has changed? Now literally the majority of Americans remaining single. And there are also more people living alone than ever before. And when there are married households most have both husband and wife away at work each day. I don't really understand how people manage to live like this, and it seems to me the answer is that they aren't really managing to! A wife is somebody you can rely on, and you somebody they can rely on, in a way far different than a friend or fling. It'd sound metaphorical but perhaps it's quite accurate to say you both literally keep each other sane! Countless studies have shown greater mental health and even greater life expectancy among married couples. We've gone from a hardworking childbearing married nation, to a nation of single childless households working fewer hours than ever before. And this has been, at least in part, precipitated by a variety of social changes we have mostly supported. In any case, not something I'm going to blame on employers. [1] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG [2] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/COMPRNFB
- projektir 8y ago
  It should be blamed on employers, though (and the systemic, if you will, but employers have more power here and I believe blaming the higher power entities is more appropriate than lower power entities). Employers are why more people have to work. A lot of what you're referring to relies on a chunk of people not working, and that has been eliminated, you just didn't notice because a lot of this work was not called work. > Today the average American only works 1,765 hours a year. That is less than practically any time in our history. For one, you're forgetting a certain half of all workers that just was conveniently never counted. For another, it's a question of scale. It's like, going from 100% to 90%. It will always look good, but it's not that big of a difference in practice. You have to evaluate it objectively. And, objectively, it just sucks.