5 ms·

I live in Mill Valley, and I must admit, sadly, I was passively following the controversy on Nextdoor merely for entertainment value. (It was absolutely bonkers

I live in Mill Valley, and I must admit, sadly, I was passively following the controversy on Nextdoor merely for entertainment value. (It was absolutely bonkers. 375 posts on the thread last time I looked.) I did not think the city council would actually act on this. Putting on my big-boy pants to go fight this. Help please! I need ammunition -- if you have links to peer-reviewed research refuting the nonsense, please share.

noobermin 8y ago
Point out that the sun gives them more energy per time. Point out that light bulbs probably give them more energy per time. Tell them to hold up their hands to a light bulb (or do this yourself) so they can see visible light from light bulbs are enough to penetrate the skin, yet we don't get sunburnt sitting under a light bulbs all night.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  But you can't see microwaves, therefore they must be bad. To understand why they are bad: if you can't see them then you are effectively in the dark. And people are afraid of the dark.
- programmarchy 8y ago
  Frequency matters, not just energy. There’s a reason microwave ovens operate at the frequency they do. You’d be better off citing evidence that the frequencies used in 5G don’t have adverse long term effects on biological systems. We’ve had millions of years to evolve complex biological systems to deal with the radiation from visible and UV light spectrum. Microwave radiation, not so much. It’s fine for people to be cautious.
  - noobermin 8y ago
    You're right, the point is as long as you're below UV, then you can think in terms of dielectric heating is the important take away, because it's only when ionization can occur that you start to care about cancer I guess. But no, the reasons why microwave ovens work have less to do with their frequency than UV interactions do, which are QM in nature. The only real effect wavelength has in classical EM matter interactions is penetration depth. Anything longer wavelength than visible light has less energy per photon and thus can't ionize, that goes beyond saying, may be I should have opened with that. The only thing that matters after that is intensity and penetration depth.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
    > You’d be better off citing evidence that the frequencies used in 5G don’t have adverse long term effects on biological systems. This is going to be a subject of a long battle between two camps of scientists with contradictory results coming up every now and again. The amount of investment in 5G is simply too high for it to fail, there's no way it's blocked even if some studies demonstrate a negative impact on human health.

noobermin 8y ago

Point out that the sun gives them more energy per time. Point out that light bulbs probably give them more energy per time. Tell them to hold up their hands to a light bulb (or do this yourself) so they can see visible light from light bulbs are enough to penetrate the skin, yet we don't get sunburnt sitting under a light bulbs all night.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
But you can't see microwaves, therefore they must be bad. To understand why they are bad: if you can't see them then you are effectively in the dark. And people are afraid of the dark.
programmarchy 8y ago
Frequency matters, not just energy. There’s a reason microwave ovens operate at the frequency they do. You’d be better off citing evidence that the frequencies used in 5G don’t have adverse long term effects on biological systems. We’ve had millions of years to evolve complex biological systems to deal with the radiation from visible and UV light spectrum. Microwave radiation, not so much. It’s fine for people to be cautious.
- noobermin 8y ago
  You're right, the point is as long as you're below UV, then you can think in terms of dielectric heating is the important take away, because it's only when ionization can occur that you start to care about cancer I guess. But no, the reasons why microwave ovens work have less to do with their frequency than UV interactions do, which are QM in nature. The only real effect wavelength has in classical EM matter interactions is penetration depth. Anything longer wavelength than visible light has less energy per photon and thus can't ionize, that goes beyond saying, may be I should have opened with that. The only thing that matters after that is intensity and penetration depth.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  > You’d be better off citing evidence that the frequencies used in 5G don’t have adverse long term effects on biological systems. This is going to be a subject of a long battle between two camps of scientists with contradictory results coming up every now and again. The amount of investment in 5G is simply too high for it to fail, there's no way it's blocked even if some studies demonstrate a negative impact on human health.