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>New York implemented a medallion system because Manhattan is a long, narrow island with high travel demand. I'm sure it was well intentioned ... initially. An

>New York implemented a medallion system because Manhattan is a long, narrow island with high travel demand. I'm sure it was well intentioned ... initially. And then it became a boondoggle that protected the invested capital of medallion owners. >Commuters, shoppers etc. do own cars and clog streets during the peak hours, but commuters and shoppers also park their cars while they're off doing their jobs and errands; taxis are constantly driving for fares. OK. But they aren't just driving around. They are moving people meaning there is a public good being served. I have no doubt there will be traffic LIKE THERE IS TODAY and customers will price that in. If traffic gets too terrible, more people will move to mass public transit LIKE THEY DO TODAY. When I'm in New York or Hong Kong, I'd love to be able to cab or uber it everywhere but I don't because many times a 10 minute trip will take an hour - so I opt for subway in many cases. An equilibrium which balances price, convenience, time, etc. will be established - so don't fight it, let it establish itself. I didn't even talk about costs. Low density transit options like Taxis/Ubers are pricey compared to high density transit options liks buses and subways - people will opt for those just for price alone. You see that with the daily commute to work where even affluent people will take the subway instead of cabbing it. I did that because Uber is great for going to a bar on a Friday night, but it sucks to pay $30/day on a round-trip to work ... and subways are faster during rush hour. >Were medallion prices high? Sure. Talk about an understatement.

bobthepanda 8y ago
> An equilibrium which balances price, convenience, time, etc. will be established - so don't fight it, let it establish itself. An equilibrium for local passenger travel might be established. Which does a whole lotta nothing for the emergency vehicles, the delivery vehicles, the commuter and local and intercity buses, etc., all of which have to share the same roads. In fact, average bus speeds citywide in New York have declined due to increased traffic, which drives more people to Ubers instead of buses, which increases traffic. Unpriced traffic is a classic tragedy of the commons.
- Const-me 8y ago
  > Unpriced traffic https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/gas/gasidx.htm https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/gas/gasidx.htm https://dmv.ny.gov/motor-carriers/new-york-state-highway-use-tax-tmt https://dmv.ny.gov/motor-carriers/new-york-state-highway-use... https://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/taxes/business-commercial-motor-vehicle-tax-cmvt.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/taxes/business-commercial-...
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    The first is a tax on gas, which affects different vehicles differently; for example, a Tesla would not be taxed at all. The second only covers state highways, of which most of the roads in New York City, especially Manhattan, are not. The third is a flat fee; to get the most value out of it, it actually incentivizes driving more. None of this is an actual price on traffic; you pay the same rate whether or not you do all your traveling on lightly trafficked country roads, or bumper to bumper city streets. In DC, for example, they started charging tolls to maintain a constant speed of 55MPH, and it turns out the market clearing price could go as high as $40. https://ggwash.org/view/65796/the-new-i-66-tolls-offer-great-insight-into-commuter-psychology https://ggwash.org/view/65796/the-new-i-66-tolls-offer-great...
    - Const-me 8y ago
      > None of this is an actual price on traffic IMO gas tax is the best we can do. There not that many teslas, at least not yet. It scales proportionally with miles driven. It’s roughly proportional to vehicle size. It even scales with traffic intensity, cars consume more fuel per mile in cities. It’s inexpensive to manage. Best of all, unlike direct traffic tax, gas tax is anonymous, no need to track who went where, all people will eventually go to a gas pump, except people living near a state border but that’s IMO acceptable losses. I think that’s one of the reasons why fuel costs 2-3 times more here in Europe compared to US, and on average we have better public transportation.
      - bobthepanda 8y ago
        Not many Teslas, but lots of electric hybrids. A hybrid Toyota Camry traveling the same distance as a regular one will cause the same amount of wear and tear on a road, but will pay less gas tax. For this reason US states have started experimenting with taxing VMT. You don't actually need to track mileage; just measure the odometer at the end of the month. As far as tracking concerns, Manhattan is an island connected via bridges and tunnels; all you need to do traffic pricing is to toll the crossings.

bobthepanda 8y ago

> An equilibrium which balances price, convenience, time, etc. will be established - so don't fight it, let it establish itself. An equilibrium for local passenger travel might be established. Which does a whole lotta nothing for the emergency vehicles, the delivery vehicles, the commuter and local and intercity buses, etc., all of which have to share the same roads. In fact, average bus speeds citywide in New York have declined due to increased traffic, which drives more people to Ubers instead of buses, which increases traffic. Unpriced traffic is a classic tragedy of the commons.

Const-me 8y ago
> Unpriced traffic https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/gas/gasidx.htm https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/gas/gasidx.htm https://dmv.ny.gov/motor-carriers/new-york-state-highway-use-tax-tmt https://dmv.ny.gov/motor-carriers/new-york-state-highway-use... https://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/taxes/business-commercial-motor-vehicle-tax-cmvt.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/taxes/business-commercial-...
- bobthepanda 8y ago
  The first is a tax on gas, which affects different vehicles differently; for example, a Tesla would not be taxed at all. The second only covers state highways, of which most of the roads in New York City, especially Manhattan, are not. The third is a flat fee; to get the most value out of it, it actually incentivizes driving more. None of this is an actual price on traffic; you pay the same rate whether or not you do all your traveling on lightly trafficked country roads, or bumper to bumper city streets. In DC, for example, they started charging tolls to maintain a constant speed of 55MPH, and it turns out the market clearing price could go as high as $40. https://ggwash.org/view/65796/the-new-i-66-tolls-offer-great-insight-into-commuter-psychology https://ggwash.org/view/65796/the-new-i-66-tolls-offer-great...
  - Const-me 8y ago
    > None of this is an actual price on traffic IMO gas tax is the best we can do. There not that many teslas, at least not yet. It scales proportionally with miles driven. It’s roughly proportional to vehicle size. It even scales with traffic intensity, cars consume more fuel per mile in cities. It’s inexpensive to manage. Best of all, unlike direct traffic tax, gas tax is anonymous, no need to track who went where, all people will eventually go to a gas pump, except people living near a state border but that’s IMO acceptable losses. I think that’s one of the reasons why fuel costs 2-3 times more here in Europe compared to US, and on average we have better public transportation.
    - bobthepanda 8y ago
      Not many Teslas, but lots of electric hybrids. A hybrid Toyota Camry traveling the same distance as a regular one will cause the same amount of wear and tear on a road, but will pay less gas tax. For this reason US states have started experimenting with taxing VMT. You don't actually need to track mileage; just measure the odometer at the end of the month. As far as tracking concerns, Manhattan is an island connected via bridges and tunnels; all you need to do traffic pricing is to toll the crossings.