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So the question becomes: If Java is today still catching up with a list of 90s languages, why is it used instead of them? Part of the answer is that Java stil

So the question becomes: If Java is today still catching up with a list of 90s languages, why is it used instead of them? Part of the answer is that Java still advance the state of the art for most people: It got safety and garbage collection accepted by the mainstream. Oberon etc were not in reach for the average Joe, the tooling was too expensive and the cheap, resource constrained PCs couldn't run it. The language required sophistication from the programmers. Nobody was available to answer questions, the ecosystem wasn't there. Java, o.t.o.h. had something for everybody. It was safer than C, important if you wanted a stable web server. It was faster than perl or shell scripting, so you also had a cheap web server. The browser got nicer graphics from applets. Enterprise architecture got a way forward from CORBA to JEE without having to admit something was wrong. Hardware vendors got a way to stay relevant in the face of Windows. Tooling vendors and consulting companies got a reason to sell. Managers got cogweel replaceable programmers. Schools got a reasonable and vendor-neutral language. Even if none of promises was completely fulfilled, it was close enough long enough. So basically the language design resources for Oberon were in the end more wasted than those on Java. 'Worse is better' once again.

microtherion 8y ago
> Oberon etc were not in reach for the average Joe, the tooling was too expensive and the cheap, resource constrained PCs couldn't run it. I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. You can argue lack of documentation and user community, but Oberon is about as resource economic as it gets, and was originally designed for mid-80s hardware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(workstation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(workstation)
- hyperman1 8y ago
  And where was the oberon tooling for x86 dos or win98. Im not saying it was impossible to create, but nobody seems to have cared enought to do it, to get it in the hands of the user at an affordable price
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    It was available for free on Linux, SunOS, Windows, with the source code documented on the "Project Oberon" book, affordable enough for you?
    - hyperman1 8y ago
      It's a good start but: * It wasnt very visible in the ICT media. Sun did a full steam ahead Java Campaign * Open source at the time was not seen as trustworthy. I did run Linux at the time. SO did you, probably. Corporations would not touch it with a 10 feet pole. I presume oberon was seen in the same light.
pjmlp 8y ago
Well, because Sun has spent millions of dollars getting it adopted, offered the tooling for free, to the point it was one of the culprits of their downfall, as they never managed to properly get the money back. If Java was sold for the same price as lets say Delphi, most devs and university students would never have cared.
- hyperman1 8y ago
  True, but not gettiñg the money back was mostly a matter of duns ineptitude. The joke at the time was everybody got rich on Java except Sun. That joke turned sou quickly we they went bust and Oracle bought the remnants

microtherion 8y ago

> Oberon etc were not in reach for the average Joe, the tooling was too expensive and the cheap, resource constrained PCs couldn't run it. I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. You can argue lack of documentation and user community, but Oberon is about as resource economic as it gets, and was originally designed for mid-80s hardware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(workstation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(workstation)

hyperman1 8y ago
And where was the oberon tooling for x86 dos or win98. Im not saying it was impossible to create, but nobody seems to have cared enought to do it, to get it in the hands of the user at an affordable price
- pjmlp 8y ago
  It was available for free on Linux, SunOS, Windows, with the source code documented on the "Project Oberon" book, affordable enough for you?
  - hyperman1 8y ago
    It's a good start but: * It wasnt very visible in the ICT media. Sun did a full steam ahead Java Campaign * Open source at the time was not seen as trustworthy. I did run Linux at the time. SO did you, probably. Corporations would not touch it with a 10 feet pole. I presume oberon was seen in the same light.

pjmlp 8y ago

Well, because Sun has spent millions of dollars getting it adopted, offered the tooling for free, to the point it was one of the culprits of their downfall, as they never managed to properly get the money back. If Java was sold for the same price as lets say Delphi, most devs and university students would never have cared.

hyperman1 8y ago
True, but not gettiñg the money back was mostly a matter of duns ineptitude. The joke at the time was everybody got rich on Java except Sun. That joke turned sou quickly we they went bust and Oracle bought the remnants