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Food being spiked?! You're already paying a fortune to climb Everest, and now you can't even trust the people working for you. Horrible people everywhere.

kardos 8y ago
This is simply the ugly side of unrestrained capitalism
- folli 8y ago
  How would any other system prevent this?
  - lostlogin 8y ago
    Enforce the regulations by dealing with the ‘unrestrained’ bit. These scams aren’t present in all countries, copy their practices.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      This isn't a problem with capitalism, all you would need would be a right-of-contract combined with a "you agree not to poison me" clause (I say this facetiously, nobody should have to specify that). Still, many of what people call problems with capitalism are really problems with anarchy.
      - scottydelta 8y ago
        Generally, I would agree but try suing someone over breach of contract in Nepal and India(Nepal is worse than India in this regard), they will laugh at you. The judiciary system is totally messed up to an extent that it has cost people their lively hood, here are few recent examples from India to give you a glimpse of how terrible it might be in Nepal: 1. Guy gets falsely accused of harassment, faces social media justice and the complainant hasn't shown up in court for 3 years even a single time, the case is stuck since court keeps assigning a new date for hearing waiting for the complainant to show up: https://theprint.in/governance/this-delhi-man-was-called-a-pervert-in-viral-post-3-years-ago-and-hes-still-stuck-there/113879/ https://theprint.in/governance/this-delhi-man-was-called-a-p... 2. A kid is killed by a fellow student and Police pins murder on the bus conductor by torturing him and making him confess to the murder: https://www.thequint.com/news/india/gurugram-school-murder-driver-ashok-kumar-life https://www.thequint.com/news/india/gurugram-school-murder-d...
        whatshisface 8y ago
        That sounds like a problem with anarchy to me. Capitalism has nothing to do with it, the government is failing to maintain lawful order.
        scottydelta 8y ago
        Exactly, these countries haven't seen capitalism yet. I misread your previous comment thinking you were suggesting a contract would work, sorry.
        lostlogin 8y ago
        I assume autocorrect, though it could be a new term: Loss of ‘lively hood’ - the step before gentrification.
  - kurthr 8y ago
    By regulating payements and preventing "reimbursement" of people risking others lives from insurance companies coverage of hospitals and helicopters? At least it sounds like what the government of Nepal is doing against "unrestrained capitalism". Also, paying a decent stable wage/pension to the sherpas would deter this sort of behavior and encourage self-policing as the majortity wouldn't want to risk their long term pay for a short term boost. That's usually how we incentivize against corruption. Now, you could also argue that the "cost plus" accounting of insurance incentivizes them to support ever higher "quality" and prices for themselves and their peers, but that's typically a longer term problem.
  - King-Aaron 8y ago
    In soviet russia, mountain climb you
- tengbretson 8y ago
  https://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-You%27re-Dealing-With-an-Ideologue https://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-You%27re-Dealing-With-an-Ide...
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>You're already paying a fortune >you can't even trust the people working for you >Horrible people everywhere. This is literally every tourism destination ever. Also rampant substance abuse during whichever season is the off season.
- overcast 8y ago
  Not exactly sure what your point is? Because it's "normal" that makes it ok?
scott_s 8y ago
I'm not excusing their behavior, but it's worth keeping in mind the context. They have an extraordinarily risky job that they are not paid much for, compared to the people who pay them. See, for example, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/21/a-closer-look-at-the-dangerous-work-that-everests-sherpas-undertake-for-western-climbers/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/21..., but googling around is easy to find other articles from other sources talking about the high risk and low pay for Everest Sherpas.
- sulam 8y ago
  From the article, these are treks to base camp, not summit expeditions. They may be underpaid, but it's not extraordinarily risky.
  - EdwardDiego 8y ago
    ...everything in the mountains is risky. Sure, it's only a 5 day walk in mountainous terrain...
lostlogin 8y ago
The article says it’s about $1000 per trek, with scams offering them at $500 (and then billing your insurance for the medical evacuation). That’s not a lot for what’s on offer.
Spooky23 8y ago
I'm sure that spending your life helping dentists climb the mountain instills a certain cynicism.
- overcast 8y ago
  You're right, I should drug and ripoff your mother for asking me stupid computer questions at the office. Wouldn't want to just be a decent person and help, especially when you're paid to do a job.
  - nyolfen 8y ago
    in much (most?) of the world, the opportunity to defraud a rich foreigner’s insurance company does not present much of an ethical quandary
    - icebraining 8y ago
      It's not just the insurance company; overcast is mentioning the part of the article where they say the guides were deliberately making their customers ill.
  - dang 8y ago
    That's crossing into personal attack. We ban accounts that do that. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post civilly and substantively, or not at all. Edit: it looks like we've had to warn you about breaking the site guidelines numerous times already. If you keep doing it, we will ban you.

kardos 8y ago

This is simply the ugly side of unrestrained capitalism

folli 8y ago
How would any other system prevent this?
- lostlogin 8y ago
  Enforce the regulations by dealing with the ‘unrestrained’ bit. These scams aren’t present in all countries, copy their practices.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    This isn't a problem with capitalism, all you would need would be a right-of-contract combined with a "you agree not to poison me" clause (I say this facetiously, nobody should have to specify that). Still, many of what people call problems with capitalism are really problems with anarchy.
    - scottydelta 8y ago
      Generally, I would agree but try suing someone over breach of contract in Nepal and India(Nepal is worse than India in this regard), they will laugh at you. The judiciary system is totally messed up to an extent that it has cost people their lively hood, here are few recent examples from India to give you a glimpse of how terrible it might be in Nepal: 1. Guy gets falsely accused of harassment, faces social media justice and the complainant hasn't shown up in court for 3 years even a single time, the case is stuck since court keeps assigning a new date for hearing waiting for the complainant to show up: https://theprint.in/governance/this-delhi-man-was-called-a-pervert-in-viral-post-3-years-ago-and-hes-still-stuck-there/113879/ https://theprint.in/governance/this-delhi-man-was-called-a-p... 2. A kid is killed by a fellow student and Police pins murder on the bus conductor by torturing him and making him confess to the murder: https://www.thequint.com/news/india/gurugram-school-murder-driver-ashok-kumar-life https://www.thequint.com/news/india/gurugram-school-murder-d...
      - whatshisface 8y ago
        That sounds like a problem with anarchy to me. Capitalism has nothing to do with it, the government is failing to maintain lawful order.
        scottydelta 8y ago
        Exactly, these countries haven't seen capitalism yet. I misread your previous comment thinking you were suggesting a contract would work, sorry.
      - lostlogin 8y ago
        I assume autocorrect, though it could be a new term: Loss of ‘lively hood’ - the step before gentrification.
- kurthr 8y ago
  By regulating payements and preventing "reimbursement" of people risking others lives from insurance companies coverage of hospitals and helicopters? At least it sounds like what the government of Nepal is doing against "unrestrained capitalism". Also, paying a decent stable wage/pension to the sherpas would deter this sort of behavior and encourage self-policing as the majortity wouldn't want to risk their long term pay for a short term boost. That's usually how we incentivize against corruption. Now, you could also argue that the "cost plus" accounting of insurance incentivizes them to support ever higher "quality" and prices for themselves and their peers, but that's typically a longer term problem.
- King-Aaron 8y ago
  In soviet russia, mountain climb you
tengbretson 8y ago
https://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-You%27re-Dealing-With-an-Ideologue https://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-You%27re-Dealing-With-an-Ide...

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

>You're already paying a fortune >you can't even trust the people working for you >Horrible people everywhere. This is literally every tourism destination ever. Also rampant substance abuse during whichever season is the off season.

overcast 8y ago
Not exactly sure what your point is? Because it's "normal" that makes it ok?

scott_s 8y ago

I'm not excusing their behavior, but it's worth keeping in mind the context. They have an extraordinarily risky job that they are not paid much for, compared to the people who pay them. See, for example, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/21/a-closer-look-at-the-dangerous-work-that-everests-sherpas-undertake-for-western-climbers/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/04/21..., but googling around is easy to find other articles from other sources talking about the high risk and low pay for Everest Sherpas.

sulam 8y ago
From the article, these are treks to base camp, not summit expeditions. They may be underpaid, but it's not extraordinarily risky.
- EdwardDiego 8y ago
  ...everything in the mountains is risky. Sure, it's only a 5 day walk in mountainous terrain...

lostlogin 8y ago

The article says it’s about $1000 per trek, with scams offering them at $500 (and then billing your insurance for the medical evacuation). That’s not a lot for what’s on offer.

Spooky23 8y ago

I'm sure that spending your life helping dentists climb the mountain instills a certain cynicism.

overcast 8y ago
You're right, I should drug and ripoff your mother for asking me stupid computer questions at the office. Wouldn't want to just be a decent person and help, especially when you're paid to do a job.
- nyolfen 8y ago
  in much (most?) of the world, the opportunity to defraud a rich foreigner’s insurance company does not present much of an ethical quandary
  - icebraining 8y ago
    It's not just the insurance company; overcast is mentioning the part of the article where they say the guides were deliberately making their customers ill.
- dang 8y ago
  That's crossing into personal attack. We ban accounts that do that. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post civilly and substantively, or not at all. Edit: it looks like we've had to warn you about breaking the site guidelines numerous times already. If you keep doing it, we will ban you.