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You have yet to prove the interference claim. You’re just hand waving away the gap between spying and interfering, and it’s not convincing.

boomboomsubban 8y ago
The spying is interference, they don't have to do anything else. Having access to that information alone is enough to limit the potential positions any politician can hold. This isn't hand waving, people change their actions when they know they are being watched.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  No, that’s hand waving. You’re asserting that spying = interference because reasons. Politicians always know they’re being watched by friend, foe, and constituent alike, because they’re politicians. If you really believe that spying is interference, then you also believe that there’s never been a fair election ever.
  - boomboomsubban 8y ago
    Blackmail isn't unambiguous reasons, and you only need to look at the CIA's actions throughout the world to understand the threat. Very few elections even include anti-American candidates, and the few times that those candidates have won have led to regime change like the 1953 Iran coup, or constant threats of regime change, like post-Chavez Venezuela. And no, I don't think many elections are overly fair.
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      Okay, blackmail is absolutely interference. But you need to actually prove that blackmail is happening. There are plenty of other reasonable explanations for why so many of our allies elect pro-American politicians: namely that we're their super power buddy that carries the burden of dealing with other super powers. Even when we go off the reservation a bit (like Iraq), it's still much easier for places like France to stick with us than ditch us.
      - boomboomsubban 8y ago
        >their super power buddy that carries the burden of dealing with other super powers. "Do what we say, if you don't we'll punish you or you'll be forced to do what they say." None of what you're describing particularly sounds like "free choice by the people." It's just been normalized so you don't see it as unusual or call it interference. As you say, the US is a super power. They aren't tasked with the burden of dealing with other super powers, they exert their power to maintain and further their position. Oh, and when you look at the sheer volume of regime changes the CIA has been involved with, the blackmail becomes obvious. You know they're spying, you know what they're capable of and willing to do.

boomboomsubban 8y ago

The spying is interference, they don't have to do anything else. Having access to that information alone is enough to limit the potential positions any politician can hold. This isn't hand waving, people change their actions when they know they are being watched.

village-idiot 8y ago
No, that’s hand waving. You’re asserting that spying = interference because reasons. Politicians always know they’re being watched by friend, foe, and constituent alike, because they’re politicians. If you really believe that spying is interference, then you also believe that there’s never been a fair election ever.
- boomboomsubban 8y ago
  Blackmail isn't unambiguous reasons, and you only need to look at the CIA's actions throughout the world to understand the threat. Very few elections even include anti-American candidates, and the few times that those candidates have won have led to regime change like the 1953 Iran coup, or constant threats of regime change, like post-Chavez Venezuela. And no, I don't think many elections are overly fair.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    Okay, blackmail is absolutely interference. But you need to actually prove that blackmail is happening. There are plenty of other reasonable explanations for why so many of our allies elect pro-American politicians: namely that we're their super power buddy that carries the burden of dealing with other super powers. Even when we go off the reservation a bit (like Iraq), it's still much easier for places like France to stick with us than ditch us.
    - boomboomsubban 8y ago
      >their super power buddy that carries the burden of dealing with other super powers. "Do what we say, if you don't we'll punish you or you'll be forced to do what they say." None of what you're describing particularly sounds like "free choice by the people." It's just been normalized so you don't see it as unusual or call it interference. As you say, the US is a super power. They aren't tasked with the burden of dealing with other super powers, they exert their power to maintain and further their position. Oh, and when you look at the sheer volume of regime changes the CIA has been involved with, the blackmail becomes obvious. You know they're spying, you know what they're capable of and willing to do.