5 ms·

It could also be the situation where the loss due to complications due to the equipment are far less than the loss due to the disease. If you lose 10% to conta

by bena 8y ago

It could also be the situation where the loss due to complications due to the equipment are far less than the loss due to the disease. If you lose 10% to contaminated bottles, 15% to various malfunctions, and another 5% for things related to the procedure I can't even begin to consider, that's 30% mortality rate for this procedure. But if another has 0% mortality rate but due to some other factor is not available in appropriate quantities, let's say there are only enough resources to service 10 cases a day, then your 11th case can either take a 100% mortality rate for doing nothing, or a 30% mortality rate with the other procedure. You take the better chance.

manmal 8y ago
Why should there be a loss due to a contaminated bottle when the children are only breathing INTO the bottle?
- sp332 8y ago
  The bottle and the water in it are physically connected by tubing right into the patient's airways. Infection is definitely possible.
  - tuxguy 8y ago
    Most hospitals have access to an autoclave ! It seems trivial to sterilize the bottles
    - anotheramala 8y ago
      In USA the large companies who will lose profits from simple alternatives will make up reasons to not lose their profits.
      - pkaye 8y ago
        What about in the EU?
      - bena 8y ago
        From an article without a paywall: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40498395 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40498395 Basically, they don't have access to ventilators. The current recommendation still has a mortality rate of 1:7 but the bottle method seems to be around 1:56 (if I'm reading that right). So, the order of preference is ventilator, shampoo bottle, then low-flow oxygen. In other words, what I said. This is a case of not having access to the best method, but having something that works better than the other secondary methods. This will not and should not replace ventilators in modern hospitals, but in places where ventilators are unavailable, this is a good solution.
    - bena 8y ago
      Hospital-acquired infection is common enough.
nraynaud 8y ago
I think there is confusion, on the videos and picture they are using medical equipment, it's just used in a different way.
- bena 8y ago
  The point dmix makes is that "a lack of regulation is saving lives". The device doesn't have to be tested, it doesn't require licensed operators, etc. And I was agreeing that it is saving lives, but that it is not particularly indicative that regulation is killing people. That the incident of a disease may be so prevalent or that access to modern hospitals may be so scarce that in certain cases, taking an unregulated approach is better than no approach. This is in India. This would never be discovered in a developed nation because there is no need for it. A ventilator has a far better success rate. However, in India, in other developing nations, this is necessary. And the fact that it is simple to set up, that it can be set up by someone with little training, etc are all benefits in those situations. That even with what would be considered a pretty poor mortality rate, it's still better than the alternatives at their disposal.
  - kragen 8y ago
    You say, "A ventilator has a far better success rate." I am skeptical of this statement; what are your sources? I would expect this setup to have the same success rate as any other bubble CPAP machine.
    - omegabravo 8y ago
      it would be hard to cite source on a new device/discovery/method such as this as there would not be any. The comment higher up the chain covered some of the potential failure methods of the new system. > If you lose 10% to contaminated bottles, 15% to various malfunctions, and another 5% for things related to the procedure I can't even begin to consider, that's 30% mortality rate for this procedure.
      - kragen 8y ago

by bena 8y ago

manmal 8y ago

Why should there be a loss due to a contaminated bottle when the children are only breathing INTO the bottle?

sp332 8y ago
The bottle and the water in it are physically connected by tubing right into the patient's airways. Infection is definitely possible.
- tuxguy 8y ago
  Most hospitals have access to an autoclave ! It seems trivial to sterilize the bottles
  - anotheramala 8y ago
    In USA the large companies who will lose profits from simple alternatives will make up reasons to not lose their profits.
    - pkaye 8y ago
      What about in the EU?
    - bena 8y ago
      From an article without a paywall: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40498395 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40498395 Basically, they don't have access to ventilators. The current recommendation still has a mortality rate of 1:7 but the bottle method seems to be around 1:56 (if I'm reading that right). So, the order of preference is ventilator, shampoo bottle, then low-flow oxygen. In other words, what I said. This is a case of not having access to the best method, but having something that works better than the other secondary methods. This will not and should not replace ventilators in modern hospitals, but in places where ventilators are unavailable, this is a good solution.
  - bena 8y ago
    Hospital-acquired infection is common enough.

nraynaud 8y ago

I think there is confusion, on the videos and picture they are using medical equipment, it's just used in a different way.

bena 8y ago
The point dmix makes is that "a lack of regulation is saving lives". The device doesn't have to be tested, it doesn't require licensed operators, etc. And I was agreeing that it is saving lives, but that it is not particularly indicative that regulation is killing people. That the incident of a disease may be so prevalent or that access to modern hospitals may be so scarce that in certain cases, taking an unregulated approach is better than no approach. This is in India. This would never be discovered in a developed nation because there is no need for it. A ventilator has a far better success rate. However, in India, in other developing nations, this is necessary. And the fact that it is simple to set up, that it can be set up by someone with little training, etc are all benefits in those situations. That even with what would be considered a pretty poor mortality rate, it's still better than the alternatives at their disposal.
- kragen 8y ago
  You say, "A ventilator has a far better success rate." I am skeptical of this statement; what are your sources? I would expect this setup to have the same success rate as any other bubble CPAP machine.
  - omegabravo 8y ago
    it would be hard to cite source on a new device/discovery/method such as this as there would not be any. The comment higher up the chain covered some of the potential failure methods of the new system. > If you lose 10% to contaminated bottles, 15% to various malfunctions, and another 5% for things related to the procedure I can't even begin to consider, that's 30% mortality rate for this procedure.
    - kragen 8y ago