4 ms·

2 small ineffective wins, that basically mean nothing weighed against a Trade War with China, almost entirely destroying relations with the EU and Nato, deeply

2 small ineffective wins, that basically mean nothing weighed against a Trade War with China, almost entirely destroying relations with the EU and Nato, deeply damaging relations with the 5 eyes countries - who are the US's closest allies. Worsening relations with Iran. And of course a FAR too familiar relationship with Russia. How is that doing ok?

malvosenior 8y ago
I wouldn't call N. Korea a "small ineffective win", I'd also put improved relations with Russia high on the list of good things but I know how unpopular that sentiment is with the left. Putting pressure on our allies? Good. No relationship should be above examining and reevaluating. The EU has been imposing its will on the entire internet, I'm glad the US president is not in lock step with them.
- hef19898 8y ago
  You're right, it was a big win. For the Koreans, finally having gotten the international recognition they wanted for three generations.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    And they got that recognition not through threats or displays of might but by opening up diplomacy and talking to the US and China. North and South Korea are actually talking about a united country and all of the neighboring countries see this as a positive step. It may not mean much to westerners (although it should, nuclear non-proliferation is a big deal), but large portions of the world see this as a good thing.
    - hef19898 8y ago
      Ok, the North-Koreans shot ICBMs how often across Japan? On trjectories that showed to everyone that they can reach the US mainland? With nukes? Ok, by that regard the whole cold war, including the Cuban Missile Crisis was profound Display of pacifism by everyone involved. Not saying that easing tensions isn't a good Thing. But Trump doesn't deserve any credit for it besides giving away a lot in Exchange for a poor PR stunt.
    - dashundchen 8y ago
      Doesn't seem like non-proliferation actually happened here: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/cheery-trump-tweets-starkly-contrast-increasing-nuke-production https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/cheery-trump-tweets-stark... > U.S. intelligence reportedly estimates that the North Koreans are on track to create five to eight new weapons this year, figures apace with the average of six weapons a year that they were constructing before the Trump-Kim summit. > Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, already deeply doubtful that inroads could be made with the North Koreans, has become disillusioned with the process when faced with the evidence, per NBC. > President Donald Trump, on the other hand, continues to tweet messages like “we will get it done together!” and “we will prove everyone wrong!” displaying his affection for North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and his desire to keep foreign policy messaging positive before the midterms.
- rswail 8y ago
  Improved relations with Russia should not involve a) defying your own intelligence organizations conclusions regarding election interference, b) not wanting to impose sanctions on oligarchs and high government officials that have engaged in obvious criminal behavior (money laundering etc), c) not condemning face-to-face, the Russian governments actions of assassinations on an ally's soil (UK), or its disgusting actions to stop democratic involvement in Russia, or the suspicious deaths of opposition political leaders, or the oppression of LGBT people, etc. Russia is a two-bit crime organization that happens to hold land. Its GDP is less than Italy and its controlled by a dictator that has consolidated power using patronage. There is no need for "improved relations" with that nation until it has reformed.
  - dang 8y ago
    Russia is a two-bit crime organization that happens to hold land Posting like that is a bannable offense on HN. It's not ok to slur another country—any country—regardless of how you feel about geopolitics. More generally, HN is no place for nationalistic flamewar, so please avoid nationalistic flamebait when posting here. It may be upticking on the rest of the internet, but that makes it more important to avoid here.
- serverlesscloud 8y ago
  No point arguing with Chinese bots
- jaegerpicker 8y ago
  The most favorable possible view is that the North Korea talks was a small ineffective win. They were recognized, the president of the United States went to them on their terms, and it's done absolutely zero to slow the building/testing of nuclear bombs. It's more honestly a epic disaster in the making. Also the five eyes have almost nothing to do with the EU and have been the closest most important allies and partners the US has. Harming those relations is good? In what world? Sure ever relationship should be evaluated but there is a huge difference between that and publicly shaming a close friend over minor bullshit reasons.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    > It's more honestly a epic disaster in the making. I don’t see how you can say this. What’s disastrous about a more open and unified Korea? Tensions have been steadily decreasing since the Trump meeting and if you follow Asian news, you’d see he is getting credit for helping the situation.

malvosenior 8y ago

I wouldn't call N. Korea a "small ineffective win", I'd also put improved relations with Russia high on the list of good things but I know how unpopular that sentiment is with the left. Putting pressure on our allies? Good. No relationship should be above examining and reevaluating. The EU has been imposing its will on the entire internet, I'm glad the US president is not in lock step with them.

hef19898 8y ago
You're right, it was a big win. For the Koreans, finally having gotten the international recognition they wanted for three generations.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  And they got that recognition not through threats or displays of might but by opening up diplomacy and talking to the US and China. North and South Korea are actually talking about a united country and all of the neighboring countries see this as a positive step. It may not mean much to westerners (although it should, nuclear non-proliferation is a big deal), but large portions of the world see this as a good thing.
  - hef19898 8y ago
    Ok, the North-Koreans shot ICBMs how often across Japan? On trjectories that showed to everyone that they can reach the US mainland? With nukes? Ok, by that regard the whole cold war, including the Cuban Missile Crisis was profound Display of pacifism by everyone involved. Not saying that easing tensions isn't a good Thing. But Trump doesn't deserve any credit for it besides giving away a lot in Exchange for a poor PR stunt.
  - dashundchen 8y ago
    Doesn't seem like non-proliferation actually happened here: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/cheery-trump-tweets-starkly-contrast-increasing-nuke-production https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/cheery-trump-tweets-stark... > U.S. intelligence reportedly estimates that the North Koreans are on track to create five to eight new weapons this year, figures apace with the average of six weapons a year that they were constructing before the Trump-Kim summit. > Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, already deeply doubtful that inroads could be made with the North Koreans, has become disillusioned with the process when faced with the evidence, per NBC. > President Donald Trump, on the other hand, continues to tweet messages like “we will get it done together!” and “we will prove everyone wrong!” displaying his affection for North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and his desire to keep foreign policy messaging positive before the midterms.
rswail 8y ago
Improved relations with Russia should not involve a) defying your own intelligence organizations conclusions regarding election interference, b) not wanting to impose sanctions on oligarchs and high government officials that have engaged in obvious criminal behavior (money laundering etc), c) not condemning face-to-face, the Russian governments actions of assassinations on an ally's soil (UK), or its disgusting actions to stop democratic involvement in Russia, or the suspicious deaths of opposition political leaders, or the oppression of LGBT people, etc. Russia is a two-bit crime organization that happens to hold land. Its GDP is less than Italy and its controlled by a dictator that has consolidated power using patronage. There is no need for "improved relations" with that nation until it has reformed.
- dang 8y ago
  Russia is a two-bit crime organization that happens to hold land Posting like that is a bannable offense on HN. It's not ok to slur another country—any country—regardless of how you feel about geopolitics. More generally, HN is no place for nationalistic flamewar, so please avoid nationalistic flamebait when posting here. It may be upticking on the rest of the internet, but that makes it more important to avoid here.
serverlesscloud 8y ago
No point arguing with Chinese bots
jaegerpicker 8y ago
The most favorable possible view is that the North Korea talks was a small ineffective win. They were recognized, the president of the United States went to them on their terms, and it's done absolutely zero to slow the building/testing of nuclear bombs. It's more honestly a epic disaster in the making. Also the five eyes have almost nothing to do with the EU and have been the closest most important allies and partners the US has. Harming those relations is good? In what world? Sure ever relationship should be evaluated but there is a huge difference between that and publicly shaming a close friend over minor bullshit reasons.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  > It's more honestly a epic disaster in the making. I don’t see how you can say this. What’s disastrous about a more open and unified Korea? Tensions have been steadily decreasing since the Trump meeting and if you follow Asian news, you’d see he is getting credit for helping the situation.