4 ms·

I’m not sure what she could do, openly. Demand an apology? Or work silently so that it wouldn’t happen again. I feel the later is the more likely action taken.

by yardie 8y ago

vetinari 8y ago
From Willy Wimmer interview in 2014 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faL4zRUdQTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faL4zRUdQTA, segment from 1:03:28, very loose translation): --- Ken: Mr. Wimmer, can you imagine headlines "Vladimir Putin has listened to cellphone of the German chancellor for ten years"? Wimmer: That would lead to revolutionary situation in Germany. Ken: And if they would say "China runs a flat spy operation in Germany"? Wimmer: They are accused of that anyway. Ken: But why nothing happened after NSA affair? At first they said "we don't do such thing", then "we do it a will do it further". Wimmer: That's a question of national dignity. Ken: Do we still have it? Wimmer: You already answered that. Ken: Did I? Wimmer: By asking the question. If it happened anywhere else, we would definitely cut the contact. But the reality is, as you just described. Business as usual. --- Based on information from interviews like this, I think that nothing has happened, and no action was taken. US (correctly) assessed, that Germany can do nothing, and did what they wanted/needed/whatever. Germany can't do anything from it's position of weakness. If Germany wants to change that, the steps necessary do not take into account the past, current or future US administration. Only German interests.
- Udo_Schmitz 8y ago
  Ken Jebsen is an anti-American, right wing conspiracy theorist Both he and Willy Wimmer toe the Kremlin line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KenFM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KenFM https://www.tagesspiegel.de/medien/juergen-elsaesser-und-sein-compact-magazin-ein-netzwerk-fuer-putin-und-pegida/12194382.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/medien/juergen-elsaesser-und-sei...
  - vetinari 8y ago
    Tagesspiel is a part of the Lügenpresse network. See how easy is to label someone? Address the points, do not ad-hominem the messenger. Wimmer spent decades in CDU, with results to show. He "toes the Kremlin line" because he disagreed with the wars in Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan, and we cannot have that.
    - Udo_Schmitz 8y ago
      My comment is by definition not ad hominem. The part of the interview you quoted is low on facts and consists mainly of opinion. I would like to help the non-German audience on Hacker News to be able to classify the positions of the persons involved. That is why I also provided links with sources. Ken Jebsen and Willy Wimmer are part of what we call in Germany the “Querfront”: that literally translates to “cross-front” and in the historical sense is the term used for anti-democratic strategies to combine the opposing ideologies of nationalism and socialism in order to assume political power in the Weimar Republic. Internationally the modern iteration is known as “Third Position”. Today you can find those positions in every political party. They have in common that their positions are anti-American, anti-NATO and pro-Putin. So Mr. Wimmers CDU membership doesn't come in to play. My translation from the introduction of “Rechte Hetze im Netz - eine unterschätzte Gefahr” by Patrick Gensing: “This heated atmosphere is fired by pro-Russian strategists who propagate a close alliance with Putins Russia. The result is a cross-front that wants to impose an authoritarian-nationalist system.” https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Querfront#Rechtspopulismus https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Querfront#Rechtspopulismus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position
  - mistermann 8y ago
    That may be, but what matters is whether the above conversation is a reasonably accurate representation of what has actually transpired. Is what they say true or false, generally speaking?
    - Udo_Schmitz 8y ago
      Like I just wrote in another comment: the quoted part of the interview is low on facts and consists mainly of opinion. Yes, the U.S. tapped Merkel's phone. Russia and China spy on Germany as well, though I don't know how good their phone tap capabilities are. That headlines like “Vladimir Putin has listened to cellphone of the German chancellor for ten years” “would lead to revolutionary circumstances in Germany” is total nonsense in my opinion. I assume Jebsen and Wimmer try to suggest that Germany is not a sovereign state. Points like that are often made in their circles and link to the “Reichsbürgerbewegung”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbürgerbewegung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbürgerbewegung

I’m not sure what she could do, openly. Demand an apology? Or work silently so that it wouldn’t happen again. I feel the later is the more likely action taken.

by yardie 8y ago

I’m not sure what she could do, openly. Demand an apology? Or work silently so that it wouldn’t happen again. I feel the later is the more likely action taken.

vetinari 8y ago

From Willy Wimmer interview in 2014 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faL4zRUdQTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faL4zRUdQTA, segment from 1:03:28, very loose translation): --- Ken: Mr. Wimmer, can you imagine headlines "Vladimir Putin has listened to cellphone of the German chancellor for ten years"? Wimmer: That would lead to revolutionary situation in Germany. Ken: And if they would say "China runs a flat spy operation in Germany"? Wimmer: They are accused of that anyway. Ken: But why nothing happened after NSA affair? At first they said "we don't do such thing", then "we do it a will do it further". Wimmer: That's a question of national dignity. Ken: Do we still have it? Wimmer: You already answered that. Ken: Did I? Wimmer: By asking the question. If it happened anywhere else, we would definitely cut the contact. But the reality is, as you just described. Business as usual. --- Based on information from interviews like this, I think that nothing has happened, and no action was taken. US (correctly) assessed, that Germany can do nothing, and did what they wanted/needed/whatever. Germany can't do anything from it's position of weakness. If Germany wants to change that, the steps necessary do not take into account the past, current or future US administration. Only German interests.

Udo_Schmitz 8y ago
Ken Jebsen is an anti-American, right wing conspiracy theorist Both he and Willy Wimmer toe the Kremlin line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KenFM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KenFM https://www.tagesspiegel.de/medien/juergen-elsaesser-und-sein-compact-magazin-ein-netzwerk-fuer-putin-und-pegida/12194382.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/medien/juergen-elsaesser-und-sei...
- vetinari 8y ago
  Tagesspiel is a part of the Lügenpresse network. See how easy is to label someone? Address the points, do not ad-hominem the messenger. Wimmer spent decades in CDU, with results to show. He "toes the Kremlin line" because he disagreed with the wars in Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan, and we cannot have that.
  - Udo_Schmitz 8y ago
    My comment is by definition not ad hominem. The part of the interview you quoted is low on facts and consists mainly of opinion. I would like to help the non-German audience on Hacker News to be able to classify the positions of the persons involved. That is why I also provided links with sources. Ken Jebsen and Willy Wimmer are part of what we call in Germany the “Querfront”: that literally translates to “cross-front” and in the historical sense is the term used for anti-democratic strategies to combine the opposing ideologies of nationalism and socialism in order to assume political power in the Weimar Republic. Internationally the modern iteration is known as “Third Position”. Today you can find those positions in every political party. They have in common that their positions are anti-American, anti-NATO and pro-Putin. So Mr. Wimmers CDU membership doesn't come in to play. My translation from the introduction of “Rechte Hetze im Netz - eine unterschätzte Gefahr” by Patrick Gensing: “This heated atmosphere is fired by pro-Russian strategists who propagate a close alliance with Putins Russia. The result is a cross-front that wants to impose an authoritarian-nationalist system.” https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Querfront#Rechtspopulismus https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Querfront#Rechtspopulismus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position
- mistermann 8y ago
  That may be, but what matters is whether the above conversation is a reasonably accurate representation of what has actually transpired. Is what they say true or false, generally speaking?
  - Udo_Schmitz 8y ago
    Like I just wrote in another comment: the quoted part of the interview is low on facts and consists mainly of opinion. Yes, the U.S. tapped Merkel's phone. Russia and China spy on Germany as well, though I don't know how good their phone tap capabilities are. That headlines like “Vladimir Putin has listened to cellphone of the German chancellor for ten years” “would lead to revolutionary circumstances in Germany” is total nonsense in my opinion. I assume Jebsen and Wimmer try to suggest that Germany is not a sovereign state. Points like that are often made in their circles and link to the “Reichsbürgerbewegung”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbürgerbewegung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbürgerbewegung