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The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they

The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting. In the west and in the urban areas of SE Asia, these problems do not occur because the users are educated enough to understand how this all works and are less likely to fall for all these fake news and child kidnapping videos. Now, in remote villages, the people are not educated in technology. People who don't have access to electricity and TV suddenly find themselves using Social Media. These people don't have an idea that videos and images can be faked using Photoshop and such. So they take these at face value. In real world communications, people have developed a system of verification and trust. When someone speaks about such things, you generally ask questions like the source for the information. Then you decide whether it is a source that you trust. Whatsapp has no such system to find and verify the source of information. There is no trust model. The basic assumption is that the person in your trust zone is sending you this information. Combine this with the fact that the videos hit the base instincts of humanity (safety, especially of your children) and you have a recipe for disaster.

phobosdeimos 8y ago
These "unsophisticated" people in India love their kids as people do everywhere and don't want them to get kidnapped and gang raped. Which does seem to happen an awful lot and can be read about in old media newspapers every day. Instead of blaming WhatsApp maybe the Indian government can start to make people feel safe.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  OP was not saying that "unsophisticated" people in India don't love their kids and want them to be gang raped. > Combine this with the fact that the videos hit the base instincts of humanity (safety, especially of your children) and you have a recipe for disaster.
- emptyfile 8y ago
  So they lynch 5 strangers on the off chance they're criminals?
- TomK32 8y ago
  I must point out that in most cases child abuse happens inside families. A stranger kidnapping a child is a rather rare occurrence. Prevention, giving kids a chance to get help, ban of child-marriages etc will help, tough laws and hard punishment will not.
  - phobosdeimos 8y ago
    I am well aware of that, my country spends billions every year on child protection and it barely makes a dent it seems. But this is India were public safety is lacking and kidnapping is not so rare. And instead of doing the hard thing we are here talking about WhatsApp.
puranjay 8y ago
My parents are far from being uneducated, but even they believe that any forward sent through WhatsApp is actually from the authority figure mentioned in the message. Messages usually exploit this by mentioning how "XYZ warning" is according to scientists at NASA/MIT/IIT. My parents - who are both in their 70s - believe that these messages actually originated from NASA/MIT, etc. I don't know how to fight this. I've tried explaining it to my parents yet they don't get it. I can't even imagine how hard it would be to dispel these myths and beliefs among uneducated people.
- rootlocus 8y ago
  Try making a similar video yourself and sending it to them?
  - macca321 8y ago
    Even better, send them one from a power they absolutely trust telling them to disregard all other messages.
- quantummkv 8y ago
  The only way to stop this quick is to remove forwarding systems. If people have to make some non trivial effort to share stuff, that effort and time will be saved only for important stuff. No will spend time typing all this click bait for every single recipient. We can try education but that will take at least a generation or two to take effect.
  - Griffinsauce 8y ago
    Agreed. The only way is to restrict the virality. You can still retain the original intent of the feature by allowing single forwards (simply tag forwarded messages and don't allow them to be forwarded).
  - vezycash 8y ago
    This is a problem that can take care of itself if left alone. It's resolvable only with experience. If not, we'll enable worse problems - oppressive governments. I remember when first got online, I fell for every "make money online scheme." The experience thought me to subconsciously / automatically ignore them. Rather than spend unnecessary resources on a technical solution or filter, lets inoculate them. FAKE NEWS INOCULATION Create more ridiculous rumors that can easily be debunked. WhatsApp and other platforms can randomly spam their users with these lies and at the end of the message, write - its a joke, April fool or whatever. With this, we'll get to nirvana in half the time, with 10% effort and resource.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pluma 8y ago
You're making an awful lot of assumptions of both "educated, urban people" and "uneducated people in remote areas". We're all human and we all fall for these kinds of myths, just different ones. Just look at "red pilling". Even with university level education it's easy to fall for various forms of propaganda, especially when it's "just the facts". White supremacists will happily cite "factual" crime statistics to nudge you into the direction of race realism and it takes conscious effort to understand that even if the numbers are 100% authentic that doesn't mean you can derive any useful solution if you just stop at "crime == black". Everyone believes their life experience or education or "street smarts" means they're rational thinkers and can't be fooled. Then they get fooled. If we're lucky they realize it eventually. If not, they end up killing people.
- ahakki 8y ago
  One word: Pizzagate
wtmt 8y ago
> The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting. I'm deeply disappointed that your comment is on the top in this discussion! As one of the "educated and urban" people, I take umbrage at this completely ridiculous and nonsensical statement. The fact that you can even make such a statement as an "educated and urban" person says a lot about the pathetic thinking in urban circles. FWIW, I have seen many so called "educated and urban" people also falling for various WhatsApp scams and fake news. While knowledge of technology may be poorer among uneducated people "in remote areas", it's not unique to them alone. You'd know that urban dwellers aren't immune by any means to these things if you had followed the news on lynchings and other mob attacks in cities. Before you start arguing further, are you even aware how many urban people fall for all the sensational and fake debates on TV that are just meant to get ratings up, create controversies and tensions? Where is your (or anyone's) focus or acknowledgment on those?
- vijaybritto 8y ago
  Not really. Almost all of WhatsApp related lynchings are from villages. The OP's point is that one app cannot fit all. To give you one silly point to understand; These are the people who are online for the first time. They still are in the 'click here to talk to online hotties in your area' level scam. A regular internet user would know that this is fake. Not them!
  - iamshs 8y ago
    Patently false and just a way to whitewash the crime. Here are lynching/mob attack examples from Indian cities:- 1. Gurgaon : https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/muslim-meat-sellers-beaten-up-forced-to-flee-gurgaon-village-on-delhi-border/article6323033.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/muslim-meat-selle... 2. Hyderabad: https://www.firstpost.com/india/mob-lynching-telangana-police-arrests-journalist-for-sharing-false-news-on-child-lifting-gangs-charges-him-with-murder-4698561.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/mob-lynching-telangana-polic... 3. Jaipur: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/25-year-old-lynched-in-city-over-child-lifting-rumours/articleshow/63022011.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/25-year-old-... 4. Chennai: https://indianexpress.com/article/india/two-beaten-in-chennai-passersby-had-no-idea-why-who-they-were-beating-up-say-locals-5243231/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/two-beaten-in-chenna... 5. Ahemdabad: https://www.news18.com/news/india/woman-beggar-lynched-on-suspicion-of-child-lifting-in-ahmedabad-1791631.html https://www.news18.com/news/india/woman-beggar-lynched-on-su...
ncrmro 8y ago
Seen this first hand with a good friends brother in Kashmir reposting ketchup is made from all kinds of gross stuff except tomatoes.
lern_too_spel 8y ago
The Pizzagate gunman is from a supposedly educated country. Let's not pretend that this problem only affects faraway villagers. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/22/533941689/pizzagate-gunman-sentenced-to-4-years-in-prison https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/22/533941689...

phobosdeimos 8y ago

These "unsophisticated" people in India love their kids as people do everywhere and don't want them to get kidnapped and gang raped. Which does seem to happen an awful lot and can be read about in old media newspapers every day. Instead of blaming WhatsApp maybe the Indian government can start to make people feel safe.

oh_sigh 8y ago
OP was not saying that "unsophisticated" people in India don't love their kids and want them to be gang raped. > Combine this with the fact that the videos hit the base instincts of humanity (safety, especially of your children) and you have a recipe for disaster.
emptyfile 8y ago
So they lynch 5 strangers on the off chance they're criminals?
TomK32 8y ago
I must point out that in most cases child abuse happens inside families. A stranger kidnapping a child is a rather rare occurrence. Prevention, giving kids a chance to get help, ban of child-marriages etc will help, tough laws and hard punishment will not.
- phobosdeimos 8y ago
  I am well aware of that, my country spends billions every year on child protection and it barely makes a dent it seems. But this is India were public safety is lacking and kidnapping is not so rare. And instead of doing the hard thing we are here talking about WhatsApp.

puranjay 8y ago

My parents are far from being uneducated, but even they believe that any forward sent through WhatsApp is actually from the authority figure mentioned in the message. Messages usually exploit this by mentioning how "XYZ warning" is according to scientists at NASA/MIT/IIT. My parents - who are both in their 70s - believe that these messages actually originated from NASA/MIT, etc. I don't know how to fight this. I've tried explaining it to my parents yet they don't get it. I can't even imagine how hard it would be to dispel these myths and beliefs among uneducated people.

rootlocus 8y ago
Try making a similar video yourself and sending it to them?
- macca321 8y ago
  Even better, send them one from a power they absolutely trust telling them to disregard all other messages.
quantummkv 8y ago
The only way to stop this quick is to remove forwarding systems. If people have to make some non trivial effort to share stuff, that effort and time will be saved only for important stuff. No will spend time typing all this click bait for every single recipient. We can try education but that will take at least a generation or two to take effect.
- Griffinsauce 8y ago
  Agreed. The only way is to restrict the virality. You can still retain the original intent of the feature by allowing single forwards (simply tag forwarded messages and don't allow them to be forwarded).
- vezycash 8y ago
  This is a problem that can take care of itself if left alone. It's resolvable only with experience. If not, we'll enable worse problems - oppressive governments. I remember when first got online, I fell for every "make money online scheme." The experience thought me to subconsciously / automatically ignore them. Rather than spend unnecessary resources on a technical solution or filter, lets inoculate them. FAKE NEWS INOCULATION Create more ridiculous rumors that can easily be debunked. WhatsApp and other platforms can randomly spam their users with these lies and at the end of the message, write - its a joke, April fool or whatever. With this, we'll get to nirvana in half the time, with 10% effort and resource.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

pluma 8y ago

You're making an awful lot of assumptions of both "educated, urban people" and "uneducated people in remote areas". We're all human and we all fall for these kinds of myths, just different ones. Just look at "red pilling". Even with university level education it's easy to fall for various forms of propaganda, especially when it's "just the facts". White supremacists will happily cite "factual" crime statistics to nudge you into the direction of race realism and it takes conscious effort to understand that even if the numbers are 100% authentic that doesn't mean you can derive any useful solution if you just stop at "crime == black". Everyone believes their life experience or education or "street smarts" means they're rational thinkers and can't be fooled. Then they get fooled. If we're lucky they realize it eventually. If not, they end up killing people.

ahakki 8y ago
One word: Pizzagate

wtmt 8y ago

> The real problem here is that these services (twitter, fb, whatsapp, etc.) are designed for use by educated, urban people who know the basics of tech. And they are then marketed to uneducated people in remote areas to reach growth metric targets that Zuck and co can fling around at their next meeting. I'm deeply disappointed that your comment is on the top in this discussion! As one of the "educated and urban" people, I take umbrage at this completely ridiculous and nonsensical statement. The fact that you can even make such a statement as an "educated and urban" person says a lot about the pathetic thinking in urban circles. FWIW, I have seen many so called "educated and urban" people also falling for various WhatsApp scams and fake news. While knowledge of technology may be poorer among uneducated people "in remote areas", it's not unique to them alone. You'd know that urban dwellers aren't immune by any means to these things if you had followed the news on lynchings and other mob attacks in cities. Before you start arguing further, are you even aware how many urban people fall for all the sensational and fake debates on TV that are just meant to get ratings up, create controversies and tensions? Where is your (or anyone's) focus or acknowledgment on those?

vijaybritto 8y ago
Not really. Almost all of WhatsApp related lynchings are from villages. The OP's point is that one app cannot fit all. To give you one silly point to understand; These are the people who are online for the first time. They still are in the 'click here to talk to online hotties in your area' level scam. A regular internet user would know that this is fake. Not them!
- iamshs 8y ago
  Patently false and just a way to whitewash the crime. Here are lynching/mob attack examples from Indian cities:- 1. Gurgaon : https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/muslim-meat-sellers-beaten-up-forced-to-flee-gurgaon-village-on-delhi-border/article6323033.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/muslim-meat-selle... 2. Hyderabad: https://www.firstpost.com/india/mob-lynching-telangana-police-arrests-journalist-for-sharing-false-news-on-child-lifting-gangs-charges-him-with-murder-4698561.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/mob-lynching-telangana-polic... 3. Jaipur: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/25-year-old-lynched-in-city-over-child-lifting-rumours/articleshow/63022011.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/25-year-old-... 4. Chennai: https://indianexpress.com/article/india/two-beaten-in-chennai-passersby-had-no-idea-why-who-they-were-beating-up-say-locals-5243231/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/two-beaten-in-chenna... 5. Ahemdabad: https://www.news18.com/news/india/woman-beggar-lynched-on-suspicion-of-child-lifting-in-ahmedabad-1791631.html https://www.news18.com/news/india/woman-beggar-lynched-on-su...

ncrmro 8y ago

Seen this first hand with a good friends brother in Kashmir reposting ketchup is made from all kinds of gross stuff except tomatoes.

lern_too_spel 8y ago

The Pizzagate gunman is from a supposedly educated country. Let's not pretend that this problem only affects faraway villagers. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/22/533941689/pizzagate-gunman-sentenced-to-4-years-in-prison https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/22/533941689...