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Hindus believes apes did talk at some point, or atleast one species existed that did talk. They were called Vanara. They no longer exist but this literature mig

Hindus believes apes did talk at some point, or atleast one species existed that did talk. They were called Vanara. They no longer exist but this literature might point to some species that are now extinct, no fossilised evidence though would be hard to guage from fossils. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara

wafflesindeed 8y ago
It's also equally hard to trust give it's based on Hindu scripture, and the Wikipedia article itself states that they're considered mythical creatures.
- codr4 8y ago
  So how is trusting authority working out for you so far? It's a piece of the puzzle, these stories come from somewhere. The general idea is to use your brain to put the pieces together.
  - dtech 8y ago
    You're right! Let's start looking for flying apes based on the legend of harpies and Icarus.
  - close04 8y ago
    > these stories come from somewhere A very rich imagination? It's so easy to see something perfectly normal and imagine a whole new world around it. Even more so if at the time there is no "rational" explanation for it. A three headed malformed dog? It must be the monster guarding the entrance to Hell.
- geuis 8y ago
  Hmm. I am interested in this. Perhaps the modern forms have experienced enough predation that makes it difficult to follow this up. But we do such analysis often. Basically I would like to see if local ape populations continue to use our terms after a few isolated years.
codr4 8y ago
Many occult texts claim that the monkeys of today are a result of back crossing human DNA into monkey species long, long ago; and that they have been in regression ever since, turning less human with time.
- zaarn 8y ago
  I would find that unlikely considering how rarely cross-species reproduction is and we're not talking a different species, it's an entirely different family. Monkeys are largely not compatible enough to produce viable offspring, the last time that I am aware humans cross-bred with non-humans was with Neanderthals. And that's not even mentioning the even remoter chance that the offspring is viable and can reproduce.
- adrianN 8y ago
  There have been unsuccessful experiments to interbreed humans and apes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee So getting human DNA back into apes doesn't seem possible.
- krapp 8y ago
  I'm not aware of any occult texts which claim this, much less of "many." Can you specify?
  - codr4 8y ago
    Laurency's The Philosopher's Stone is one I'm sure about, fairly certain I read the same thing in Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled. There are more but it's been a long time and I don't have the books available now. Is it really that difficult to imagine? There are all sorts of traces and stories about more advanced civilizations before ours, and more advanced beings than us. As of talking monkeys, people with bird heads and feathers and so on. I'm with Socrates, I don't know anything for sure about this world. What I do know is that the pieces we've been handed don't match up with my experience.
srean 8y ago
Under the aegis of, Narendra "Ganesha is proof Hindus knew plastic surgery in vedic times" Modi, many self appointed spokesperson of what Hindu's believe in, have come out of the woodwork. They are the western analogue of humans riding on flying dinosaurs. Its the same phenomena. Now, we have our own Ku Klux Klan -- the cow rakshak's who are on a murderous spree with an implicit promise from the government that they will be insulated from justice. Here's a partial list for HN's entertainment. https://www.altnews.in/bjp-science-ganeshas-plastic-surgery-yoga-can-cure-cancer/ https://www.altnews.in/bjp-science-ganeshas-plastic-surgery-... a collection of youtube videos of the Prime Minister of India making such claims and videos of some other assorted jokers who are running the country.
- murukesh_s 8y ago
  Please don't drag politics into HN.. I know you can link anything to a ideology or government and start bashing it. let's not do that.
  - srean 8y ago
    Nothing to do with politics. Everything to do with rationality. We need the likes of James Randi by the hordes here in India, especially when our own are getting bumped off frequently lately. > I know you can link anything to a ideology By the way I am not linking 'anything' tenuous, these are direct video quotes from the country's leadership -- the prime minister of India, and other ministers
- eklavya 8y ago
  Those people saying the same things were always there. They just get more news time nowadays. As long as the scientific progress is not hampered, I don't really care what the PM or some enthusiasts believe in. I think it's as harmless as people believing/not believing in God.
  - srean 8y ago
    Huge difference. These are the decision makers of the country. These are the people who are going to decide which ideas to back, which institutes and projects to fund, what to turn a blind eye to. As the famous advert goes -- there are many thing medicines cannot cure, for everything else there is cow piss. That's what will get funded. Apparently the reasoning goes that there are a lot of vitamins and hormones in there. Last time I checked there is a lot in mine too. I wonder why dont they line up right here.
random314 8y ago
Are we all going to pretend that an ancient mythological fairy tale text is the evidence of talking apes?
- star-techate 8y ago
  Nobody really is, or they'd be worrying about the evidence for talking snakes. This is some kind of "the grass is greener on the other side" stuff. Local myths are absurd, but foreign myths are evidence.
pcx 8y ago
Us Hindus also believe that one of those monkeys could fly, namely Hanuman. That doesn't mean it can be possible. A lot of Hindu mythology is pure myth. Do not even try to link it to science. Supporting myth and superstition with pseudo-science has become popular these days in India, thanks to our PM and the rest of the ruling party indulging in such practice.
- amriksohata 8y ago
  You didn't read what I wrote.
murukesh_s 8y ago
OMG, seriously, I am a Hindu and I don't believe apes did talk or we were flying around in pushpak vimanas. Anything that is described in mythology is mythology. Please enjoy reading it and read it to our kids, but tell them that it's a story. On the other hand if you want to do some solid work on bringing credibility to these mythical stuff mentioned in the stories, please do scientific research and try to back it with solid proof. Otherwise we will become a laughing stock in front of the scientific community. p.s. There is a dark side version to the Vanara mythology, it was once told by my father and I have come to accept it as one possibility of how the name would have sticked. Here is one version: Vanara in sanskrit means Va-Nara? (question). It's like asking "Are you human"? So when Rama who was from north and when in excile came to contact with people in the south, he is said to have asked are you human? Va-Nara? And don't forget all the gods then were Kings, which was so convenient isn't it? Rama was king but also is a god. Krishna is a king but also is a god, but oh wait Krishna is dark skinned, as he captured power from Kamsa and not of royal lineage, but in the story it was given a twist (even though he belonged to Yadav caste) that he was indeed of the royal lineage and of Brahmanical descent. Krishna wouldn't have minded that story himself.. So in all possibilities there were wars between two kingdoms (Sinhala and India) and the story is used to build the mythical story that we read now. Just enjoy reading it, but don't take it was written history or anything without solid backing. p.p.s A comparable mythological story is Epic of Gilgamesh. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh). There are several elements in that story that is said to have inspired the Old Testament.
- close04 8y ago
  > Otherwise we will become a laughing stock in front of the scientific community All peoples have mythology and legends. Very rarely does this create the expectation that those stories are fact. Religion in general being one of those major exceptions. And regular people believe all kinds of "unbelievable" stuff anyway. So I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as scientists don't start claiming (all?) mythology is science. Greek mythology had a huge influence on many things in every field you can imagine but nobody really thinks it has more than maybe a grain of truth. Certainly not a basis for science.
- random314 8y ago
lost_snake 8y ago
That's not a Hindu belief, and is an overly modern reading of Hindu mythology. Just like Hindu/Indo-European notions of asparas/wood-nymphs doesn't imply the existence of and rationalization of a tribe of forest women, this isn't really a belief among Hindus about a former state of monkeyhood. Ancient people simply believed in literally supernatural/estoeric things - they weren't "secretly" technologically advanced with a strange vocabulary we now read as religious.

wafflesindeed 8y ago

It's also equally hard to trust give it's based on Hindu scripture, and the Wikipedia article itself states that they're considered mythical creatures.

codr4 8y ago
So how is trusting authority working out for you so far? It's a piece of the puzzle, these stories come from somewhere. The general idea is to use your brain to put the pieces together.
- dtech 8y ago
  You're right! Let's start looking for flying apes based on the legend of harpies and Icarus.
- close04 8y ago
  > these stories come from somewhere A very rich imagination? It's so easy to see something perfectly normal and imagine a whole new world around it. Even more so if at the time there is no "rational" explanation for it. A three headed malformed dog? It must be the monster guarding the entrance to Hell.
geuis 8y ago
Hmm. I am interested in this. Perhaps the modern forms have experienced enough predation that makes it difficult to follow this up. But we do such analysis often. Basically I would like to see if local ape populations continue to use our terms after a few isolated years.

codr4 8y ago

Many occult texts claim that the monkeys of today are a result of back crossing human DNA into monkey species long, long ago; and that they have been in regression ever since, turning less human with time.

zaarn 8y ago
I would find that unlikely considering how rarely cross-species reproduction is and we're not talking a different species, it's an entirely different family. Monkeys are largely not compatible enough to produce viable offspring, the last time that I am aware humans cross-bred with non-humans was with Neanderthals. And that's not even mentioning the even remoter chance that the offspring is viable and can reproduce.
adrianN 8y ago
There have been unsuccessful experiments to interbreed humans and apes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee So getting human DNA back into apes doesn't seem possible.
krapp 8y ago
I'm not aware of any occult texts which claim this, much less of "many." Can you specify?
- codr4 8y ago
  Laurency's The Philosopher's Stone is one I'm sure about, fairly certain I read the same thing in Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled. There are more but it's been a long time and I don't have the books available now. Is it really that difficult to imagine? There are all sorts of traces and stories about more advanced civilizations before ours, and more advanced beings than us. As of talking monkeys, people with bird heads and feathers and so on. I'm with Socrates, I don't know anything for sure about this world. What I do know is that the pieces we've been handed don't match up with my experience.

srean 8y ago

Under the aegis of, Narendra "Ganesha is proof Hindus knew plastic surgery in vedic times" Modi, many self appointed spokesperson of what Hindu's believe in, have come out of the woodwork. They are the western analogue of humans riding on flying dinosaurs. Its the same phenomena. Now, we have our own Ku Klux Klan -- the cow rakshak's who are on a murderous spree with an implicit promise from the government that they will be insulated from justice. Here's a partial list for HN's entertainment. https://www.altnews.in/bjp-science-ganeshas-plastic-surgery-yoga-can-cure-cancer/ https://www.altnews.in/bjp-science-ganeshas-plastic-surgery-... a collection of youtube videos of the Prime Minister of India making such claims and videos of some other assorted jokers who are running the country.

murukesh_s 8y ago
Please don't drag politics into HN.. I know you can link anything to a ideology or government and start bashing it. let's not do that.
- srean 8y ago
  Nothing to do with politics. Everything to do with rationality. We need the likes of James Randi by the hordes here in India, especially when our own are getting bumped off frequently lately. > I know you can link anything to a ideology By the way I am not linking 'anything' tenuous, these are direct video quotes from the country's leadership -- the prime minister of India, and other ministers
eklavya 8y ago
Those people saying the same things were always there. They just get more news time nowadays. As long as the scientific progress is not hampered, I don't really care what the PM or some enthusiasts believe in. I think it's as harmless as people believing/not believing in God.
- srean 8y ago
  Huge difference. These are the decision makers of the country. These are the people who are going to decide which ideas to back, which institutes and projects to fund, what to turn a blind eye to. As the famous advert goes -- there are many thing medicines cannot cure, for everything else there is cow piss. That's what will get funded. Apparently the reasoning goes that there are a lot of vitamins and hormones in there. Last time I checked there is a lot in mine too. I wonder why dont they line up right here.

random314 8y ago

Are we all going to pretend that an ancient mythological fairy tale text is the evidence of talking apes?

star-techate 8y ago
Nobody really is, or they'd be worrying about the evidence for talking snakes. This is some kind of "the grass is greener on the other side" stuff. Local myths are absurd, but foreign myths are evidence.

pcx 8y ago

Us Hindus also believe that one of those monkeys could fly, namely Hanuman. That doesn't mean it can be possible. A lot of Hindu mythology is pure myth. Do not even try to link it to science. Supporting myth and superstition with pseudo-science has become popular these days in India, thanks to our PM and the rest of the ruling party indulging in such practice.

amriksohata 8y ago
You didn't read what I wrote.

murukesh_s 8y ago

OMG, seriously, I am a Hindu and I don't believe apes did talk or we were flying around in pushpak vimanas. Anything that is described in mythology is mythology. Please enjoy reading it and read it to our kids, but tell them that it's a story. On the other hand if you want to do some solid work on bringing credibility to these mythical stuff mentioned in the stories, please do scientific research and try to back it with solid proof. Otherwise we will become a laughing stock in front of the scientific community. p.s. There is a dark side version to the Vanara mythology, it was once told by my father and I have come to accept it as one possibility of how the name would have sticked. Here is one version: Vanara in sanskrit means Va-Nara? (question). It's like asking "Are you human"? So when Rama who was from north and when in excile came to contact with people in the south, he is said to have asked are you human? Va-Nara? And don't forget all the gods then were Kings, which was so convenient isn't it? Rama was king but also is a god. Krishna is a king but also is a god, but oh wait Krishna is dark skinned, as he captured power from Kamsa and not of royal lineage, but in the story it was given a twist (even though he belonged to Yadav caste) that he was indeed of the royal lineage and of Brahmanical descent. Krishna wouldn't have minded that story himself.. So in all possibilities there were wars between two kingdoms (Sinhala and India) and the story is used to build the mythical story that we read now. Just enjoy reading it, but don't take it was written history or anything without solid backing. p.p.s A comparable mythological story is Epic of Gilgamesh. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh). There are several elements in that story that is said to have inspired the Old Testament.

close04 8y ago
> Otherwise we will become a laughing stock in front of the scientific community All peoples have mythology and legends. Very rarely does this create the expectation that those stories are fact. Religion in general being one of those major exceptions. And regular people believe all kinds of "unbelievable" stuff anyway. So I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as scientists don't start claiming (all?) mythology is science. Greek mythology had a huge influence on many things in every field you can imagine but nobody really thinks it has more than maybe a grain of truth. Certainly not a basis for science.
random314 8y ago

lost_snake 8y ago

That's not a Hindu belief, and is an overly modern reading of Hindu mythology. Just like Hindu/Indo-European notions of asparas/wood-nymphs doesn't imply the existence of and rationalization of a tribe of forest women, this isn't really a belief among Hindus about a former state of monkeyhood. Ancient people simply believed in literally supernatural/estoeric things - they weren't "secretly" technologically advanced with a strange vocabulary we now read as religious.