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It's not ageism to hire someone asking for less money over someone asking for more money. > technologists actually know how much they're worth If they can't f

It's not ageism to hire someone asking for less money over someone asking for more money. > technologists actually know how much they're worth If they can't find a job because they want more money than the market is willing to give them then they clearly don't know how much they're worth.

TomMckenny 8y ago
>If they can't find a job because they want more money than the market is willing to give them then they clearly don't know how much they're worth. I do not claim they ask for more, I claim they are perceived as being savvy: They are perceived as costing too much whatever the price. But either way, if there's a shortage of technologists it's because the market isn't paying enough not that the candidate is asking to much.
- galaxyLogic 8y ago
  > I claim they are perceived as being savvy That would be my assumption as well. Young kids are willing to work hard and smart while all the credits from their work go to whoever hired them. They still believe that just by being (technically) good they can thrive and become successful. Whereas their opponents, not other developers but mid-level management are not trying to be "good" they are trying to profit from others' work. An older more experienced person realizes that much of the value of the software is because of what they put into it. They can also easily explain why that is to the senior management and therefore they are a threat to the mid-level management who are getting older themselves and don't want to fall off the shelf. It's a game, people hiring developers are not looking for smart developers, they are looking for developers they can profit from and who they don't perceive as a threat to themselves.
ubernostrum 8y ago
A good analogy here is the "pilot shortage" US airlines have been complaining about for the past few years. The truth is that there's no shortage of competent people who'd like to be airline pilots. There's arguably not even a shortage of competent people who already possess the training and credentials. There is a shortage of people who are willing to put their expensive training to use at the near-starvation wages offered for entry-level positions with US airlines. So people either don't bother learning to fly, or if they do, they go sign with Asian or middle-eastern airlines, which have been expanding and are willing to pay good salaries for US-trained pilots. Would you argue that pilots who demand more money than a US airline is willing to pay "don't understand how much they're worth"?
dunpeal 8y ago
Ageism in tech is just ageism. It's not (fundamentally) about money and not (fundamentally) about skillset. It's about tossing out any resume of a 40+ year old because tech is "a young man's game". Why is it "a young man's game"? Because that's the current perception and that's it.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Ageism is exaggerated outside of the startup SV culture. I’m in my mid 40s and have never had a problem finding a job. My former manager is 60 and he self demoted to being a developer after putting his kids through college. Every developer I know over 40 is able to get a job if they kept thier skills current.
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    I would not want to be over 40 and interviewing for a almost any startup, anywhere in the US. More broadly, I would not want to be the over-40 guy trying to interview for any team where hardly anyone is even close to 30. Such teams are quite common, especially in startups everywhere, and not just in SV, unfortunately. I'm not affected by ageism myself (yet), but even if it was only in SV, which is the biggest tech hub in the US, then it would be a huge problem. But ageism is rampant outside of SV as well.
    - sumek83 8y ago
      Now that I'm out of my 20s I wouldn't want to be interviewing at almost any startup, anywhere in the world. I'm now wiser. Startup culture is toxic and I prefer to stay away ...
      - scarface74 8y ago
        There was an article recently on HN that the average age of an entrepreneur is somewhere in thier 40s. But, I’ve worked at startups since I was 35+. Many startup jobs outside of SV are just like any other corporate environment. It’s just the HN/SV bubble that makes people think that all developers are under 30.

TomMckenny 8y ago

>If they can't find a job because they want more money than the market is willing to give them then they clearly don't know how much they're worth. I do not claim they ask for more, I claim they are perceived as being savvy: They are perceived as costing too much whatever the price. But either way, if there's a shortage of technologists it's because the market isn't paying enough not that the candidate is asking to much.

galaxyLogic 8y ago
> I claim they are perceived as being savvy That would be my assumption as well. Young kids are willing to work hard and smart while all the credits from their work go to whoever hired them. They still believe that just by being (technically) good they can thrive and become successful. Whereas their opponents, not other developers but mid-level management are not trying to be "good" they are trying to profit from others' work. An older more experienced person realizes that much of the value of the software is because of what they put into it. They can also easily explain why that is to the senior management and therefore they are a threat to the mid-level management who are getting older themselves and don't want to fall off the shelf. It's a game, people hiring developers are not looking for smart developers, they are looking for developers they can profit from and who they don't perceive as a threat to themselves.

ubernostrum 8y ago

A good analogy here is the "pilot shortage" US airlines have been complaining about for the past few years. The truth is that there's no shortage of competent people who'd like to be airline pilots. There's arguably not even a shortage of competent people who already possess the training and credentials. There is a shortage of people who are willing to put their expensive training to use at the near-starvation wages offered for entry-level positions with US airlines. So people either don't bother learning to fly, or if they do, they go sign with Asian or middle-eastern airlines, which have been expanding and are willing to pay good salaries for US-trained pilots. Would you argue that pilots who demand more money than a US airline is willing to pay "don't understand how much they're worth"?

dunpeal 8y ago

Ageism in tech is just ageism. It's not (fundamentally) about money and not (fundamentally) about skillset. It's about tossing out any resume of a 40+ year old because tech is "a young man's game". Why is it "a young man's game"? Because that's the current perception and that's it.

scarface74 8y ago
Ageism is exaggerated outside of the startup SV culture. I’m in my mid 40s and have never had a problem finding a job. My former manager is 60 and he self demoted to being a developer after putting his kids through college. Every developer I know over 40 is able to get a job if they kept thier skills current.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  I would not want to be over 40 and interviewing for a almost any startup, anywhere in the US. More broadly, I would not want to be the over-40 guy trying to interview for any team where hardly anyone is even close to 30. Such teams are quite common, especially in startups everywhere, and not just in SV, unfortunately. I'm not affected by ageism myself (yet), but even if it was only in SV, which is the biggest tech hub in the US, then it would be a huge problem. But ageism is rampant outside of SV as well.
  - sumek83 8y ago
    Now that I'm out of my 20s I wouldn't want to be interviewing at almost any startup, anywhere in the world. I'm now wiser. Startup culture is toxic and I prefer to stay away ...
    - scarface74 8y ago
      There was an article recently on HN that the average age of an entrepreneur is somewhere in thier 40s. But, I’ve worked at startups since I was 35+. Many startup jobs outside of SV are just like any other corporate environment. It’s just the HN/SV bubble that makes people think that all developers are under 30.