4 ms·

On the flipside, worrying that the world could collapse at any moment is not a way to live. If things are going to collapse, there is likely nothing you can do

by jm__87 8y ago

On the flipside, worrying that the world could collapse at any moment is not a way to live. If things are going to collapse, there is likely nothing you can do as an individual to stop it from happening, so why worry about it. As far as I can think of, all you can reasonably do as an individual to prevent this outcome is try to vote for decent political candidates and do your best to be good to the people around you. These are things that decent, responsible people do to begin with. I don't see how I could use this lesson in any other possible way.

toasterlovin 8y ago
> If things are going to collapse, there is likely nothing you can do as an individual to stop it from happening, so why worry about it. Because there are some incredibly easy, low cost things you can do to increase your odds of surviving a collapse. Most people aren’t prepared to survive 2 weeks without a grocery store and electricity.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Most people will survive just fine for 2 weeks if they have access to reasonably clean water.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    Yeah, my bad. But still, most people aren’t prepared to survive 2 weeks without a functionaing municipal water supply.
- jm__87 8y ago
  > Because there are some incredibly easy, low cost things you can do to increase your odds of surviving a collapse. Seriously? Even if you had extra food and water to last years, you're totally screwed as soon as people around you who have run out find out that you're hoarding all that. No matter what you had to prepare, if enough people get together they can always come and take it from you.
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    The key phrase here is "increase your odds" If you don't have several days worth of water then you are well and truly fucked no matter what you do. If you do have several days worth of water then your odds of surviving just went way up, even if they still aren't great. The same logic applies to having food, first aid supplies, guns, etc.
int_19h 8y ago
You can't stop it from happening. But if you believe that it is likely, then you can at least prepare, so that you might have a better chance of riding it out. This is a lesson that people learn fast when it happens to them, and retain for the rest of their life - my grandma was a small kid in German-occupied Ukraine during WW2, and to this day, when something on TV spooks her, she goes and tops up her larder. Most people from her generation do the same... but not the younger folk. Why worry about something that has never happened to you? Starvation is something very abstract for most these days.
nkoren 8y ago
Things aren't "going to collapse", anymore than things are "not going to collapse". From any given point point in time, there are multiple possible futures. Some of them may be tremendously dire, others tremendously positive. And there is a lot that you can do to influence which future you end up in. Prepping to ride it out is a fool's game. I mean, sure, stock up your cupboards, get a couple weeks worth of bottled water, etc. Learn how to sew. That sort of stuff is never a bad idea. But if things go really pear-shaped, the main thing that'll get you through it other people. I've seen too many "preppers" stockpiling ammunition while burning their social capital. Idiots. They should be learning to rely on others, and be relied on by others. That's how you survive the bad futures. (That and a lot of luck). Voting is somewhere something like the second least useful thing you can do. I mean, sure, do that too -- but it's kind of like steering a ship through choppy waters when you're only allowed to put your hand on the rudder once every couple of years. Certainly you should still do so, given the chance, but don't kid yourself about the efficacy or utility of voting. What else can you do? - Run for office. - Speak at public meetings. - Lobby your representatives. - Provide financial, material, and moral support for others who do so. - Educate your friends, family, and neighbours. - Go out of your comfort zone and filter bubble. Learn from what's going on there. Help them understand you. - Get a job that builds the kind of infrastructure that makes the good scenarios more likely. - If your job is actively pushing the world towards the bad scenarios, then quit it. Or sabotage it. - Protest. Civil disobedience. There's a LOT you can do in addition to voting.
- jm__87 8y ago
  Most people don't have the time, energy or will to do most of these things. Many others who do would simply be very unhappy doing those things. My whole point was that people should just try to enjoy their lives, not have it revolve around some very low probability event.
  - ace_of_spades 8y ago
    Just as an counter example to your reasoning... there are actually whole movements of people focusing on dangerous low probability events to increase the odds of good worlds coming out of them. Given very real prospects like dangerous races towards AGI or pandemics in the future, it seems like a very bad strategy to advocate for the status quo of not caring. If you are not willing to do anything yourself look at the possibility of donating. That does not disturb your world too much but actually makes a difference. I would love to see comments like yours point out this possibility more prominently as we would all be better for it, you too :) For more concrete insights regarding the role that everyone can play have a look at: www.80000hours.org or more generally at www.effectivealtruism.org
noobermin 8y ago
I mean, you shouldn't be all too complacent, but you should also not stop living and watch political youtube videos all day instead of going to work. And, you should consider more and more active forms of political engagement if you can. And it need not be 50-50, but the ratio should depend on how imminent catastrophe is. I guess everyone sort of does this already but it helps to reiterate it I guess.
Const-me 8y ago
> all you can reasonably do as an individual to prevent this outcome is try to vote for decent political candidates and do your best to be good to the people around you. There’re many non-free countries. There, all you can do as an individual is to move out.
ace_of_spades 8y ago
One very easy and still possibly higly impactful way of making a difference without having to concern yourself too much with dangerous low probabilities events is to donate to charities which focus and work on these matters effectively. It would be awesome if you would consider this possibility when this topic comes up again in the future or even better investigate this possibility for yourself. It is not that hard and you can really have an impact :) For more information have a look at 80000hours.org or effectivealtruism.org

by jm__87 8y ago

toasterlovin 8y ago

> If things are going to collapse, there is likely nothing you can do as an individual to stop it from happening, so why worry about it. Because there are some incredibly easy, low cost things you can do to increase your odds of surviving a collapse. Most people aren’t prepared to survive 2 weeks without a grocery store and electricity.

maxerickson 8y ago
Most people will survive just fine for 2 weeks if they have access to reasonably clean water.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Yeah, my bad. But still, most people aren’t prepared to survive 2 weeks without a functionaing municipal water supply.
jm__87 8y ago
> Because there are some incredibly easy, low cost things you can do to increase your odds of surviving a collapse. Seriously? Even if you had extra food and water to last years, you're totally screwed as soon as people around you who have run out find out that you're hoarding all that. No matter what you had to prepare, if enough people get together they can always come and take it from you.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  The key phrase here is "increase your odds" If you don't have several days worth of water then you are well and truly fucked no matter what you do. If you do have several days worth of water then your odds of surviving just went way up, even if they still aren't great. The same logic applies to having food, first aid supplies, guns, etc.

int_19h 8y ago

You can't stop it from happening. But if you believe that it is likely, then you can at least prepare, so that you might have a better chance of riding it out. This is a lesson that people learn fast when it happens to them, and retain for the rest of their life - my grandma was a small kid in German-occupied Ukraine during WW2, and to this day, when something on TV spooks her, she goes and tops up her larder. Most people from her generation do the same... but not the younger folk. Why worry about something that has never happened to you? Starvation is something very abstract for most these days.

nkoren 8y ago

Things aren't "going to collapse", anymore than things are "not going to collapse". From any given point point in time, there are multiple possible futures. Some of them may be tremendously dire, others tremendously positive. And there is a lot that you can do to influence which future you end up in. Prepping to ride it out is a fool's game. I mean, sure, stock up your cupboards, get a couple weeks worth of bottled water, etc. Learn how to sew. That sort of stuff is never a bad idea. But if things go really pear-shaped, the main thing that'll get you through it other people. I've seen too many "preppers" stockpiling ammunition while burning their social capital. Idiots. They should be learning to rely on others, and be relied on by others. That's how you survive the bad futures. (That and a lot of luck). Voting is somewhere something like the second least useful thing you can do. I mean, sure, do that too -- but it's kind of like steering a ship through choppy waters when you're only allowed to put your hand on the rudder once every couple of years. Certainly you should still do so, given the chance, but don't kid yourself about the efficacy or utility of voting. What else can you do? - Run for office. - Speak at public meetings. - Lobby your representatives. - Provide financial, material, and moral support for others who do so. - Educate your friends, family, and neighbours. - Go out of your comfort zone and filter bubble. Learn from what's going on there. Help them understand you. - Get a job that builds the kind of infrastructure that makes the good scenarios more likely. - If your job is actively pushing the world towards the bad scenarios, then quit it. Or sabotage it. - Protest. Civil disobedience. There's a LOT you can do in addition to voting.

jm__87 8y ago
Most people don't have the time, energy or will to do most of these things. Many others who do would simply be very unhappy doing those things. My whole point was that people should just try to enjoy their lives, not have it revolve around some very low probability event.
- ace_of_spades 8y ago
  Just as an counter example to your reasoning... there are actually whole movements of people focusing on dangerous low probability events to increase the odds of good worlds coming out of them. Given very real prospects like dangerous races towards AGI or pandemics in the future, it seems like a very bad strategy to advocate for the status quo of not caring. If you are not willing to do anything yourself look at the possibility of donating. That does not disturb your world too much but actually makes a difference. I would love to see comments like yours point out this possibility more prominently as we would all be better for it, you too :) For more concrete insights regarding the role that everyone can play have a look at: www.80000hours.org or more generally at www.effectivealtruism.org

noobermin 8y ago

I mean, you shouldn't be all too complacent, but you should also not stop living and watch political youtube videos all day instead of going to work. And, you should consider more and more active forms of political engagement if you can. And it need not be 50-50, but the ratio should depend on how imminent catastrophe is. I guess everyone sort of does this already but it helps to reiterate it I guess.

Const-me 8y ago

> all you can reasonably do as an individual to prevent this outcome is try to vote for decent political candidates and do your best to be good to the people around you. There’re many non-free countries. There, all you can do as an individual is to move out.

ace_of_spades 8y ago

One very easy and still possibly higly impactful way of making a difference without having to concern yourself too much with dangerous low probabilities events is to donate to charities which focus and work on these matters effectively. It would be awesome if you would consider this possibility when this topic comes up again in the future or even better investigate this possibility for yourself. It is not that hard and you can really have an impact :) For more information have a look at 80000hours.org or effectivealtruism.org