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I think that minimal barrier to entry is a good idea. Because chatting is associated with SO accounts and there a minimum rep requirement (albeit a very small

by Simucal 16y ago

I think that minimal barrier to entry is a good idea. Because chatting is associated with SO accounts and there a minimum rep requirement (albeit a very small one), it will be much easier to keep spammers out of the chat.

alextgordon 16y ago
But I'm not a spammer! I don't doubt it's effectiveness at keeping spammers out. But when building a spam filter you also have to keep in mind the false positive rate. By excluding anyone who don't have the time or inclination to spend time grinding for rep on SO, they're excluding a great deal of knowledgable people.
- johns 16y ago
  You could get 20 rep with 5-10 minutes of effort. I think that's an acceptable barrier.
  - alextgordon 16y ago
    I disagree. 20 rep is about 5 or 6 good answers, depending on how lucky you are and how popular your technology of choice is. How many people are going to put in that much effort just so that they can use a chatroom?
    - johns 16y ago
      You're essentially proving that the rep requirement is valid because if you're not interested enough to answer a few questions, the chat probably isn't for you.
    - twymer 16y ago
      How is it 5-6 "good" answers? You get 10 rep per up vote. I'd imagine any "good" answer would get at least 1 vote, so I would say 2 answers, 3 at max. If they aren't willing to answer or ask a question to use a chat room structured around answering and asking questions, I think I'm okay with the situation.
    - chc 16y ago
      You must have a strange definition of "good" or only answer questions about the most obscure topics imaginable (more obscure than, say, the practical applications of functional zippers). Your numbers would require an average of 0.3 upvotes per good answer and they assume that not a single answer is accepted. If you average one upvote per answer, two would be sufficient. If an answer is accepted, that automatically puts you over 20 rep.
    - jules 16y ago
      Two upvotes or one accepted answer is enough. You don't get 1 karma per upvote as on HN.
    - abecedarius 16y ago
      FWIW, that rep-to-answer ratio is far from my experience; though I don't know the site-wide average, and I mostly posted over a year ago. I'm not saying it's not too much of a hassle -- of course that's up to you.
    - hitonagashi 16y ago
      I have 21 rep with 1 answer and 1 question....
    - stevefink 16y ago
      Even a couple of mediocre questions can get you 20 points on SO. Something as fundamental as "Why is this pointer returning an address in memory instead of a value?" will get you upvoted at least a few times.
- slantyyz 16y ago
  Yeah, some of their barriers to entry on certain pieces of functionality are a little annoying for genuine new users. Fortunately, on the functions that matter, they blow their competition out of the water. Before SO came around, I dreaded seeing Experts Exchange links in my search results. Given how long SO has been around, however, I would value a UI refresh over chat.
  - EGreg 16y ago
    Yeah, the expert sex change site has NEVER gotten me to sign up. There is one site though that has links to being able to chat with "a real lawyer", "a real doctor" etc. in realtime, and that is very tempting. Especially when their ad is exactly on an article where you need to find something out. What about that?
- chc 16y ago
  You can get 20 rep by asking or answering a single — literally, one — half-decent question. My last answer (a few days ago, so I'm not exactly grinding) netted me 90 rep. Alan Kay has 2,429 rep from one answer and one question. I would estimate that there's a vanishingly small number of people who are completely unhelpful in Q&A but would be fabulously knowledgeable in chat. I mean, there's you, but I just don't suppose there are that many others. If it keeps out every spammer and blocks three people who would legitimately be helpful, that's probably the best filter ever.
  - points 16y ago
    > "You can get 20 rep by asking or answering a single — literally, one — half-decent question" So what you're saying, is that any spambot could thwart the system easily, and the arbitrary restriction is silly, and mainly just means this will not take off beyond fanatical SO users (Which is fine, if that's their aim). IRC has developed fantastic ways to keep out spammers and idiots. And the methods don't usually involve things like this.
    - chc 16y ago
      No, I'm not saying that. In practice, AFAIK no spambot has ever acquired more than 2 rep. Spam is flagged really fast, and it's also downvoted at an astonishing rate. I imagine it would be possible for a spambot to thwart the system, but it would be pretty hard, actually. It would require a much greater degree of agility and coordination than spambots tend to have. For perspective, it would be far easier to spam the front page of Hacker News, and yet most people agree that HN's system works pretty well.
  - davidw 16y ago
    So if you're new and want to use this chat you have to: * Log in. * Find a question that you can answer, or post one. * Wait and hope you get some points. In the same amount of time you could have already hopped on IRC and received an answer.
    - chc 16y ago
- RuadhanMc 16y ago
  You might not be a spammer, but you're also not part of the community. 20 points is a very low barrier to entry. Why don't you add your knowledge to SO and worry about Chat later?
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

by Simucal 16y ago

alextgordon 16y ago

But I'm not a spammer! I don't doubt it's effectiveness at keeping spammers out. But when building a spam filter you also have to keep in mind the false positive rate. By excluding anyone who don't have the time or inclination to spend time grinding for rep on SO, they're excluding a great deal of knowledgable people.

johns 16y ago
You could get 20 rep with 5-10 minutes of effort. I think that's an acceptable barrier.
- alextgordon 16y ago
  I disagree. 20 rep is about 5 or 6 good answers, depending on how lucky you are and how popular your technology of choice is. How many people are going to put in that much effort just so that they can use a chatroom?
  - johns 16y ago
    You're essentially proving that the rep requirement is valid because if you're not interested enough to answer a few questions, the chat probably isn't for you.
  - twymer 16y ago
    How is it 5-6 "good" answers? You get 10 rep per up vote. I'd imagine any "good" answer would get at least 1 vote, so I would say 2 answers, 3 at max. If they aren't willing to answer or ask a question to use a chat room structured around answering and asking questions, I think I'm okay with the situation.
  - chc 16y ago
    You must have a strange definition of "good" or only answer questions about the most obscure topics imaginable (more obscure than, say, the practical applications of functional zippers). Your numbers would require an average of 0.3 upvotes per good answer and they assume that not a single answer is accepted. If you average one upvote per answer, two would be sufficient. If an answer is accepted, that automatically puts you over 20 rep.
  - jules 16y ago
    Two upvotes or one accepted answer is enough. You don't get 1 karma per upvote as on HN.
  - abecedarius 16y ago
    FWIW, that rep-to-answer ratio is far from my experience; though I don't know the site-wide average, and I mostly posted over a year ago. I'm not saying it's not too much of a hassle -- of course that's up to you.
  - hitonagashi 16y ago
    I have 21 rep with 1 answer and 1 question....
  - stevefink 16y ago
    Even a couple of mediocre questions can get you 20 points on SO. Something as fundamental as "Why is this pointer returning an address in memory instead of a value?" will get you upvoted at least a few times.
slantyyz 16y ago
Yeah, some of their barriers to entry on certain pieces of functionality are a little annoying for genuine new users. Fortunately, on the functions that matter, they blow their competition out of the water. Before SO came around, I dreaded seeing Experts Exchange links in my search results. Given how long SO has been around, however, I would value a UI refresh over chat.
- EGreg 16y ago
  Yeah, the expert sex change site has NEVER gotten me to sign up. There is one site though that has links to being able to chat with "a real lawyer", "a real doctor" etc. in realtime, and that is very tempting. Especially when their ad is exactly on an article where you need to find something out. What about that?
chc 16y ago
You can get 20 rep by asking or answering a single — literally, one — half-decent question. My last answer (a few days ago, so I'm not exactly grinding) netted me 90 rep. Alan Kay has 2,429 rep from one answer and one question. I would estimate that there's a vanishingly small number of people who are completely unhelpful in Q&A but would be fabulously knowledgeable in chat. I mean, there's you, but I just don't suppose there are that many others. If it keeps out every spammer and blocks three people who would legitimately be helpful, that's probably the best filter ever.
- points 16y ago
  > "You can get 20 rep by asking or answering a single — literally, one — half-decent question" So what you're saying, is that any spambot could thwart the system easily, and the arbitrary restriction is silly, and mainly just means this will not take off beyond fanatical SO users (Which is fine, if that's their aim). IRC has developed fantastic ways to keep out spammers and idiots. And the methods don't usually involve things like this.
  - chc 16y ago
    No, I'm not saying that. In practice, AFAIK no spambot has ever acquired more than 2 rep. Spam is flagged really fast, and it's also downvoted at an astonishing rate. I imagine it would be possible for a spambot to thwart the system, but it would be pretty hard, actually. It would require a much greater degree of agility and coordination than spambots tend to have. For perspective, it would be far easier to spam the front page of Hacker News, and yet most people agree that HN's system works pretty well.
- davidw 16y ago
  So if you're new and want to use this chat you have to: * Log in. * Find a question that you can answer, or post one. * Wait and hope you get some points. In the same amount of time you could have already hopped on IRC and received an answer.
  - chc 16y ago
RuadhanMc 16y ago
You might not be a spammer, but you're also not part of the community. 20 points is a very low barrier to entry. Why don't you add your knowledge to SO and worry about Chat later?

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]