5 ms·

> Some of the labeling heard today What do you have in mind, in particular?

happytoexplain 8y ago
Spreading hatred for groups of people via labels and encouraging their treatment as sub-human is popular rhetoric among nationalist extremists and political conspiracy theorists, but to satisfy the final condition (to be subjected in practice to a significant amount of suppression based on deceitful rhetoric), I think an easy argument could be made to put immigrants in that category, and maybe also homosexuals/trans people. You have to be mindful of that last condition though, since if you dropped it, nearly any group of people, sadly, would qualify as being subjected to such behavior.
- tajen 8y ago
  That’s all common prejudices you have about right-wing people. But you’re right on one thing: It’s very dangerous. You’re encouraging people to have prejudices to the point of being ok with killing or justifying the killing of white people. Example: White people getting expropriated and killed in South Africa hurts no-one’s feelings, unfortunately. The real question here is not the ethnicities, but sorting lies from truth, moral from amoral. And the killing of people is amoral in ALL cases. Even if the victim is white or male. And that’s what the right-wing have been saying all along, despites layers of lies that are spread over them. It is a real, big big big problem that whites and males are disparaged today to the point of being fired from Google when they protest for illegal mistreatment or put errorneously in prison in UK for reporting on crimes performed by the protected classes, and encouraging the disparaging of people who say just-that is what 52% of the population are fed up with.
- tomohawk 8y ago
  It's also popular among communists. The idea of getting rid of anyone who stands in the way of some ideology or belief so that a utopia can be established. Mao killed 45 - 100 million people. Many were starved to death, with food allocated such that anyone who opposed his ideals did not get food. Stalin and Lenin killed their millions, too. Not an athiest? Off to the gulag! Successful farmer or landowner? Off to the gulag! Too successful or competent? Off to the gulag! In today's China, the government is operating concentration camps to "reeducate" people into proper belief systems - presumably so that the communist party's utopia can be achieved. It is estimated as many as a million may be in these camps.
  - jsonne 8y ago
    For what it's worth in the article he brings up Soviet atrocities as well. No place on the political spectrum has the monopoly on being righteous, nor committing terrible crimes.
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      What many forget are the dead bodies of capitalism. That isn't mentioned normally, not is it in this first hand account. Capitalism has its roots in the idea that only those who produce get resources. If you are unable/unwilling, you do not deserve anything. And that anything includes: a home, food, water, bathroom, medicine, surgery, dentistry, or all the other essentials needed to live. Along with that, our unique US capitalism also allows for slavery when charged with a crime. We call the Russian and Chinese detention centers "gulags" - we have enshrined their usage in our Constitution. Mao and Stalin killed X millions. I'll accept that without research. How many people has the US killed with lack of health care? How many union strikers were murdered by the National Guard? How many African Americans were killed under lynching and 'police discretion'? How many people were killed because they didn't make enough money to matter? How many communities were poisoned with lead and other environmental pollutants because their community was impoverished? In the end, Capitalists can crow one solid phrase to absolve their 'sins'. And that is, "They brought their suffering and death upon themselves by not choosing better". Am I advocating communism or socialism? No. They have been shown to not work in the previous incarnations around the world. Capitalism works, until people slip through the cracks... And those cracks day by day get ever so larger. I don't know the name of the thing I think of. Maybe its a mashup between socialism and capitalism, so that we all grow together, and that nobody is left behind.
      - int_19h 8y ago
        Capitalism has its roots in one idea: private ownership of the means of production. It doesn't say anything about who does or does not deserve something; it's just completely orthogonal to the ideology, such as it is. People still suffer as a result of those economic policies, when they're not unchecked - but it is not the intent, and you can absolutely have capitalism without any of that stuff. Statist hard left ideologies (such as Stalinism, or Maoism, or even late Soviet socialism), on the other hand, have an ideological dogma that suppressing dissent by violence, even extreme violence, is perfectly okay, and even a revolutionary duty - the ends justify the means. There are other political ideologies that incorporate capitalism (or parts of it) as an economic program, but pile other stuff on top of that to justify violent oppression of the opposition - like most right-wing dictatorships - and those would be legitimate targets for comparison with Stalinism etc. But people dying from lack of healthcare in US are not "victims of capitalism". They're victims of a specific oligopoly, that other capitalist countries don't even have.
- baud147258 8y ago
  > among nationalist extremists and political conspiracy theorists Not only from them, other groups are doing it too, but since they are not writing in English, no one cares.
GW150914 8y ago
> Some of the labeling heard today What do you have in mind, in particular? They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. From the man who is now the president of the country with the world’s largest economy and military. I’m sorry if this bothers people because it’s political, but it’s a fair answer to the weak question asked.
- mattnewton 8y ago
  Don’t know what’s political about answering that question directly except that it’s from a Trump quote. I suppose most people would prefer everyone just not answer here - in which case I wonder what this article is doing on hacker news at all if we don’t want to have this discussion here.
  - masonic 8y ago
    Except that's not the actual quote.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - evgen 8y ago
      The actual lines are: "They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." Explain how prior comment differs significantly from the actual quote.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Seems accurate to me: https://youtu.be/Jaz1J0s-cL4?t=27s https://youtu.be/Jaz1J0s-cL4?t=27s
- jerf 8y ago
  HN is at least 90% anti-Trump. If you're getting downvoted for a Trump criticism, you've screwed up somewhere other than pissing off the three people on HN who have voting privileges and like Trump.
sheepmullet 8y ago
The demonization of white men.

Spreading hatred for groups of people via labels and encouraging their treatment as sub-human is popular rhetoric among nationalist extremists and political conspiracy theorists, but to satisfy the final condition (to be subjected in practice to a significant amount of suppression based on deceitful rhetoric), I think an easy argument could be made to put immigrants in that category, and maybe also homosexuals/trans people. You have to be mindful of that last condition though, since if you dropped it, nearly any group of people, sadly, would qualify as being subjected to such behavior.

tajen 8y ago
That’s all common prejudices you have about right-wing people. But you’re right on one thing: It’s very dangerous. You’re encouraging people to have prejudices to the point of being ok with killing or justifying the killing of white people. Example: White people getting expropriated and killed in South Africa hurts no-one’s feelings, unfortunately. The real question here is not the ethnicities, but sorting lies from truth, moral from amoral. And the killing of people is amoral in ALL cases. Even if the victim is white or male. And that’s what the right-wing have been saying all along, despites layers of lies that are spread over them. It is a real, big big big problem that whites and males are disparaged today to the point of being fired from Google when they protest for illegal mistreatment or put errorneously in prison in UK for reporting on crimes performed by the protected classes, and encouraging the disparaging of people who say just-that is what 52% of the population are fed up with.
tomohawk 8y ago
It's also popular among communists. The idea of getting rid of anyone who stands in the way of some ideology or belief so that a utopia can be established. Mao killed 45 - 100 million people. Many were starved to death, with food allocated such that anyone who opposed his ideals did not get food. Stalin and Lenin killed their millions, too. Not an athiest? Off to the gulag! Successful farmer or landowner? Off to the gulag! Too successful or competent? Off to the gulag! In today's China, the government is operating concentration camps to "reeducate" people into proper belief systems - presumably so that the communist party's utopia can be achieved. It is estimated as many as a million may be in these camps.
- jsonne 8y ago
  For what it's worth in the article he brings up Soviet atrocities as well. No place on the political spectrum has the monopoly on being righteous, nor committing terrible crimes.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    What many forget are the dead bodies of capitalism. That isn't mentioned normally, not is it in this first hand account. Capitalism has its roots in the idea that only those who produce get resources. If you are unable/unwilling, you do not deserve anything. And that anything includes: a home, food, water, bathroom, medicine, surgery, dentistry, or all the other essentials needed to live. Along with that, our unique US capitalism also allows for slavery when charged with a crime. We call the Russian and Chinese detention centers "gulags" - we have enshrined their usage in our Constitution. Mao and Stalin killed X millions. I'll accept that without research. How many people has the US killed with lack of health care? How many union strikers were murdered by the National Guard? How many African Americans were killed under lynching and 'police discretion'? How many people were killed because they didn't make enough money to matter? How many communities were poisoned with lead and other environmental pollutants because their community was impoverished? In the end, Capitalists can crow one solid phrase to absolve their 'sins'. And that is, "They brought their suffering and death upon themselves by not choosing better". Am I advocating communism or socialism? No. They have been shown to not work in the previous incarnations around the world. Capitalism works, until people slip through the cracks... And those cracks day by day get ever so larger. I don't know the name of the thing I think of. Maybe its a mashup between socialism and capitalism, so that we all grow together, and that nobody is left behind.
    - int_19h 8y ago
      Capitalism has its roots in one idea: private ownership of the means of production. It doesn't say anything about who does or does not deserve something; it's just completely orthogonal to the ideology, such as it is. People still suffer as a result of those economic policies, when they're not unchecked - but it is not the intent, and you can absolutely have capitalism without any of that stuff. Statist hard left ideologies (such as Stalinism, or Maoism, or even late Soviet socialism), on the other hand, have an ideological dogma that suppressing dissent by violence, even extreme violence, is perfectly okay, and even a revolutionary duty - the ends justify the means. There are other political ideologies that incorporate capitalism (or parts of it) as an economic program, but pile other stuff on top of that to justify violent oppression of the opposition - like most right-wing dictatorships - and those would be legitimate targets for comparison with Stalinism etc. But people dying from lack of healthcare in US are not "victims of capitalism". They're victims of a specific oligopoly, that other capitalist countries don't even have.
baud147258 8y ago
> among nationalist extremists and political conspiracy theorists Not only from them, other groups are doing it too, but since they are not writing in English, no one cares.

GW150914 8y ago

> Some of the labeling heard today What do you have in mind, in particular? They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. From the man who is now the president of the country with the world’s largest economy and military. I’m sorry if this bothers people because it’s political, but it’s a fair answer to the weak question asked.

mattnewton 8y ago
Don’t know what’s political about answering that question directly except that it’s from a Trump quote. I suppose most people would prefer everyone just not answer here - in which case I wonder what this article is doing on hacker news at all if we don’t want to have this discussion here.
- masonic 8y ago
  Except that's not the actual quote.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - evgen 8y ago
    The actual lines are: "They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." Explain how prior comment differs significantly from the actual quote.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Seems accurate to me: https://youtu.be/Jaz1J0s-cL4?t=27s https://youtu.be/Jaz1J0s-cL4?t=27s
jerf 8y ago
HN is at least 90% anti-Trump. If you're getting downvoted for a Trump criticism, you've screwed up somewhere other than pissing off the three people on HN who have voting privileges and like Trump.

sheepmullet 8y ago

The demonization of white men.