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> [Libraries provide] welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. And isn't this precisely why normal people don't use libraries anymo

> [Libraries provide] welcoming public spaces for the poor, the homeless and young people. And isn't this precisely why normal people don't use libraries anymore? Because they've become de facto homeless shelters with unsavory guests who frequently smell awful or use computers for watching porn. I recently visited the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests.

js2 8y ago
I’m a normal person. Myself and my family (wife, two kids) use our local libraries weekly. I use it while waiting for my daughter at dance class. I’m in Wake County, NC. I’m sorry your library is unusable to you. That’s a great loss.
moorhosj 8y ago
Is there a source for “normal people don’t use libraries anymore”? I live in Chicago and our libraries are pretty consistently packed with people of all ages, incomes, living situations, etc.
- fipple 8y ago
  I don’t take my kid to the library because of the homeless people there. I don’t oppose government funds being used to provide daytime facilities for homeless people, I just don’t think it should be at the same location as the kids library.
  - tehwebguy 8y ago
    I guess my other comment was rightly flagged so here’s a non sarcastic version: Why don’t you think it’s ok for homeless people to use the same library as kids?
    - int_19h 8y ago
      It's okay for homeless people to use the library as a library, of course, provided that they adhere to basic hygiene standards. It's not okay to use the library as a homeless shelter, which is what OP implies.
    - fipple 8y ago
      I think it’s fine for a homeless person to come in for half an hour to peruse books and check them out. In that case the homeless population of the library will be roughly the same percentage as they are of the city overall. That’s obviously not the case, homeless people are over 50% of the library’s population at any time of day since they stay all day while everyone else spends 15 minutes.
  - tehwebguy 8y ago
    Good call, you wouldn’t want to have to teach your kid to tolerate a world where desperately poor also exist and have access to... anything
  - moorhosj 8y ago
    Is a "kids library" different than an "adult library"? I use the library in my neighborhood and am an adult, is that ok?
    - closeparen 8y ago
      All the public libraries I've been in have a distinct adult wing and children's wing, though under the same roof. Aside from the collections, the children's wing is colorfully decorated with ample play areas, child-proofed computers, and higher noise tolerance. Parents generally feel comfortable letting their kids wander the children's section unsupervised.
      - moorhosj 8y ago
        So...it's all the same library. Again, in my big city people seem to get along just fine in our libraries. There is a kids section and I see plenty of parents, caretakers and nannies with kids there every day. Meanwhile, people in the other sections go about their business using the internet or studying.
mxuribe 8y ago
It is unfortunate that your experience was not a positive one...but i suppose this says more about how society has failed in numerous ways that some citizens are grasping at straws, and leveraging the only available institutions for them.
- closeparen 8y ago
  You can say the same thing about public transit, parks, and the sidewalk. Does it matter? Not one bit. Once those places are allowed to become disgusting, people with a choice in the matter stop going to them. "You'd be surprised by how many San Franciscans think that the problem with human feces or used syringes on sidewalks is the 'lack of empathy' of those who notice them. That or their 'sense of entitlement.'"
stanleydrew 8y ago
I'm a pretty normal person living in San Francisco and I work pretty regularly from the public library in my neighborhood. The free WiFi is nice and the only issue I've ever had is kids coming in to watch YouTube videos after school which is really just a minor annoyance.
omegaworks 8y ago
>I recently visited the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests. Perhaps you should reflect upon the nature of your city and the massive changes it is undergoing, with a particular focus upon on the distribution of resources like shelter, before taking your animus out on the public library system. That the libraries have taken on this role serves as an example of the failures elsewhere in your civic society. If who you consider "normal" people don't use libraries, consider what that means about what has been normalized. Your local public library can help you find resources to get you started.
- int_19h 8y ago
  The whys don't really matter to their point, which is that this is the reason why libraries aren't all that popular these days.
tomcam 8y ago
That is correct. Another, minor problem for a library lover like me is that libraries have been falling all over themselves to get rid of books.
chasing 8y ago
Last library I went into was shortly after a local school had released the students for the day. It was full of kids excitedly looking around and checking out books and just generally seeming to enjoy themselves. It was awesome.
seltzered_ 8y ago
I wouldn't blame the library for Seattle's more general problems (income disparity / regressive tax setup, high cost of living, homelessness, drug use). The porn use is a bit disgusting, and segues into some freedom of use topics - FWIW in Austin they sorta solve this by having separate 'unfiltered' computers with recessed screens. In seattle they seem to solve things by having separate computer areas between adults and kid areas. As for library bathroom issues, Seattle libraries have been doing things to make them less inviting to wrong folks by making the sinks shallow, removing paper hand towel racks, etc. It's arguably a hard balance. Anyway, if you get past these issues the Seattle libraries are pretty impressive compared to many other towns. The Seattle downtown library top floors are great for getting work done, and many other branches have quiet areas. The online access of e-books/audiobooks is also fairly vast.
qubax 8y ago
It's why I stopped going regularly. The smell and of course during winter, the constant coughing. But mostly the smell. Wish libraries would be quicker about growing their online presence. I still don't know why they have stacks and stacks of books on shelves. And why do they have so many cds and dvds? Why not move it all online?

js2 8y ago

I’m a normal person. Myself and my family (wife, two kids) use our local libraries weekly. I use it while waiting for my daughter at dance class. I’m in Wake County, NC. I’m sorry your library is unusable to you. That’s a great loss.

moorhosj 8y ago

Is there a source for “normal people don’t use libraries anymore”? I live in Chicago and our libraries are pretty consistently packed with people of all ages, incomes, living situations, etc.

fipple 8y ago
I don’t take my kid to the library because of the homeless people there. I don’t oppose government funds being used to provide daytime facilities for homeless people, I just don’t think it should be at the same location as the kids library.
- tehwebguy 8y ago
  I guess my other comment was rightly flagged so here’s a non sarcastic version: Why don’t you think it’s ok for homeless people to use the same library as kids?
  - int_19h 8y ago
    It's okay for homeless people to use the library as a library, of course, provided that they adhere to basic hygiene standards. It's not okay to use the library as a homeless shelter, which is what OP implies.
  - fipple 8y ago
    I think it’s fine for a homeless person to come in for half an hour to peruse books and check them out. In that case the homeless population of the library will be roughly the same percentage as they are of the city overall. That’s obviously not the case, homeless people are over 50% of the library’s population at any time of day since they stay all day while everyone else spends 15 minutes.
- tehwebguy 8y ago
  Good call, you wouldn’t want to have to teach your kid to tolerate a world where desperately poor also exist and have access to... anything
- moorhosj 8y ago
  Is a "kids library" different than an "adult library"? I use the library in my neighborhood and am an adult, is that ok?
  - closeparen 8y ago
    All the public libraries I've been in have a distinct adult wing and children's wing, though under the same roof. Aside from the collections, the children's wing is colorfully decorated with ample play areas, child-proofed computers, and higher noise tolerance. Parents generally feel comfortable letting their kids wander the children's section unsupervised.
    - moorhosj 8y ago
      So...it's all the same library. Again, in my big city people seem to get along just fine in our libraries. There is a kids section and I see plenty of parents, caretakers and nannies with kids there every day. Meanwhile, people in the other sections go about their business using the internet or studying.

mxuribe 8y ago

It is unfortunate that your experience was not a positive one...but i suppose this says more about how society has failed in numerous ways that some citizens are grasping at straws, and leveraging the only available institutions for them.

closeparen 8y ago
You can say the same thing about public transit, parks, and the sidewalk. Does it matter? Not one bit. Once those places are allowed to become disgusting, people with a choice in the matter stop going to them. "You'd be surprised by how many San Franciscans think that the problem with human feces or used syringes on sidewalks is the 'lack of empathy' of those who notice them. That or their 'sense of entitlement.'"

stanleydrew 8y ago

I'm a pretty normal person living in San Francisco and I work pretty regularly from the public library in my neighborhood. The free WiFi is nice and the only issue I've ever had is kids coming in to watch YouTube videos after school which is really just a minor annoyance.

omegaworks 8y ago

>I recently visited the famous Seattle public library and was shocked by the nature of the guests. Perhaps you should reflect upon the nature of your city and the massive changes it is undergoing, with a particular focus upon on the distribution of resources like shelter, before taking your animus out on the public library system. That the libraries have taken on this role serves as an example of the failures elsewhere in your civic society. If who you consider "normal" people don't use libraries, consider what that means about what has been normalized. Your local public library can help you find resources to get you started.

int_19h 8y ago
The whys don't really matter to their point, which is that this is the reason why libraries aren't all that popular these days.

tomcam 8y ago

That is correct. Another, minor problem for a library lover like me is that libraries have been falling all over themselves to get rid of books.

chasing 8y ago

Last library I went into was shortly after a local school had released the students for the day. It was full of kids excitedly looking around and checking out books and just generally seeming to enjoy themselves. It was awesome.

seltzered_ 8y ago

I wouldn't blame the library for Seattle's more general problems (income disparity / regressive tax setup, high cost of living, homelessness, drug use). The porn use is a bit disgusting, and segues into some freedom of use topics - FWIW in Austin they sorta solve this by having separate 'unfiltered' computers with recessed screens. In seattle they seem to solve things by having separate computer areas between adults and kid areas. As for library bathroom issues, Seattle libraries have been doing things to make them less inviting to wrong folks by making the sinks shallow, removing paper hand towel racks, etc. It's arguably a hard balance. Anyway, if you get past these issues the Seattle libraries are pretty impressive compared to many other towns. The Seattle downtown library top floors are great for getting work done, and many other branches have quiet areas. The online access of e-books/audiobooks is also fairly vast.

qubax 8y ago

It's why I stopped going regularly. The smell and of course during winter, the constant coughing. But mostly the smell. Wish libraries would be quicker about growing their online presence. I still don't know why they have stacks and stacks of books on shelves. And why do they have so many cds and dvds? Why not move it all online?