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Does Google seriously hire mechanical engineers without a degree and proper certification?

by sakopov 8y ago

8_hours_ago 8y ago
Not all mechanical engineering work requires a Professional Engineer
- sandworm101 8y ago
  Then it isnt engineering work. Engineers are professionals, acredited by societies and licensed by governments. It is akin to the differance between simple "medical work" done by any number of people with the skills, and medical doctoring.
  - Bahamut 8y ago
    That is not the definition of an engineer. See Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer
    - sandworm101 8y ago
      It is the definition of a professional. Engineering is a recognized profession, alongside doctors and lawyers. It fought to be there. Work needing an engineer cannot be done by anyone who isnt. Companies should not muddle the distinctions between those legally able to do such work and those who may not. From wikipedia: "In many countries, engineering tasks such as the design of bridges, electric power plants, industrial equipment, machine design and chemical plants, must be approved by a licensed professional engineer. Most commonly titled professional engineer" "In the United States, engineering is a regulated profession whose practice and practitioners are licensed and governed by law. Licensure is generally attainable through combination of education, pre-examination (Fundamentals of Engineering exam), examination (professional engineering exam),[19] and engineering experience (typically in the area of 5+ years). Each state tests and licenses professional engineers."
      - InitialLastName 8y ago
        You're arguing this on a forum loaded with software developers, often without college degrees, more often without an "engineering" degree, all of whom are in jobs with "engineer" in the title. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you might be fighting collective delusion in the wrong place.
      - Bahamut 8y ago
        Did you even check the link? The Wikipedia article has a definition of a professional engineer right in there, and what you said did not agree with it at all.
        Kranar 8y ago
        Hmm... I also read the link and what they said is spot on. Furthermore they even quoted part of the relevant section justifying their claim.
        Bahamut 8y ago
        Not sure what you’re reading, but it said nothing about requiring a license - what the person said was very different than the definition cited. In fact, the obsession over the license part clearly misses the mark. This is what the summary mentions as the only supporting evidence of any sort of credentialing: “The foundational qualifications of an engineer typically include a 4-year bachelor's degree in an engineering discipline, or in some jurisdictions, a master's degree in an engineering discipline plus 4–6 years of peer-reviewed professional practice (culminating in a project report or thesis) and passage of engineering board examinations.” Note that the word used is “typically” - this is very different than being a requirement. The definition of a professional engineer cited mentions no such credentialing required, speaking in broad terms of the characteristics & responsibilities of one, but no narrow hallmark of how one reaches the title. The part he quoted is far from verifying his/her claim - just the opposite, it is evidence that he/she is misusing the term professional engineer and is not distinguishing from a licensed professional engineer from a professional engineer.
      - 8y ago
  - pandler 8y ago
    In the US, there’s a difference between a professional Engineer and a Professional Engineer. Professional Engineer requires certification (I think they even give you a ring or something), but you can still work professionally as an Engineer without the certification. The difference, roughly, if I remember correctly, is that Professional Engineers are the only ones who can “sign off” on work and essentially assume liability. Therefore, you can be an uncertified Engineer as long as you’re working under someone certified or if your work doesn’t require sign-off from someone certified. Are there any PE’s here that can tell me if that’s correct?
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      Reminds me of this lawsuit, where an engineer was sued by Oregon for criticizing traffic infrastructure (a red light camera) and calling himself an engineer: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/08/criticizing-red-light-cameras-is-not-a-punishable-offense-oregon-concedes/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/0...
  - jjeaff 8y ago
    So if you are doing the same work, maybe even better than a Professional Engineer, they are doing engineering work, and you are just... twiddling your thumbs?
    - sandworm101 8y ago
      That might be "engineering work" but it isn't the type of work that legally requires a P.Eng (or P.Eng supervision). I can have my assistant to draft a memo, even interview a client, that doesn't make him a lawyer. And he certainly isn't allowed to hold himself out as such to the public.
  - thx4allthestuff 8y ago
    Someone should go back in time to inform DaVinci to make sure he refrains from all of that not-engineering work. It’s easy for people to forget that the engineering came first. The students came after. You can argue the point all day, but it will always come down to one person figuring shit out by themselves.
  - creatornator 8y ago
    This isn't true at all. Most engineers never get a PE. It's not worth it unless you are working on public works projects or civil engineering things. It's very reductive to say that work isn't engineering unless you have a PE.
rightbyte 8y ago
Hopefully not. The Glassdoor article is a typical SEO spam write-up. Their data is generally so bad it's annoying.
astura 8y ago
Yeah and Publix is apparently hiring pharmacists without a degree apparently. Total BS, to be a pharmacist you need to have a Doctor of Pharmacy (which is an advanced degree!) and be licensed by the appropriate government entity. Those 6-8 years of schooling aren't exactly optional.
- jjeaff 8y ago
  You are correct about the title. But the need for a pharmacy degree in a pill dispensary seems dubious. They literally take the RX and count the pills out. Obviously, you can ask the pharmacist questions and get additional info, but that's not required for someone to hand me my vitamin D supplements.
  - astura 8y ago
    Except they specifically listed "pharmacist," not "pharmacy technician" or "pharmacy assistant."
Datenstrom 8y ago
I agree that for some engineering fields an official certification of some sort should be required. There are other roads to obtaining the required knowledge for that certification though, and attending university should absolutely not be the only way to obtain certification. At the very least standardized tests. It would save highly motivated self learners or people learning in an apprenticeship type situation such as an open source contributer years of their life, lots of money, and allow them to more quickly contribute to society.

Does Google seriously hire mechanical engineers without a degree and proper certification?

8_hours_ago 8y ago

Not all mechanical engineering work requires a Professional Engineer

sandworm101 8y ago
Then it isnt engineering work. Engineers are professionals, acredited by societies and licensed by governments. It is akin to the differance between simple "medical work" done by any number of people with the skills, and medical doctoring.
- Bahamut 8y ago
  That is not the definition of an engineer. See Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    It is the definition of a professional. Engineering is a recognized profession, alongside doctors and lawyers. It fought to be there. Work needing an engineer cannot be done by anyone who isnt. Companies should not muddle the distinctions between those legally able to do such work and those who may not. From wikipedia: "In many countries, engineering tasks such as the design of bridges, electric power plants, industrial equipment, machine design and chemical plants, must be approved by a licensed professional engineer. Most commonly titled professional engineer" "In the United States, engineering is a regulated profession whose practice and practitioners are licensed and governed by law. Licensure is generally attainable through combination of education, pre-examination (Fundamentals of Engineering exam), examination (professional engineering exam),[19] and engineering experience (typically in the area of 5+ years). Each state tests and licenses professional engineers."
    - InitialLastName 8y ago
      You're arguing this on a forum loaded with software developers, often without college degrees, more often without an "engineering" degree, all of whom are in jobs with "engineer" in the title. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you might be fighting collective delusion in the wrong place.
    - Bahamut 8y ago
      Did you even check the link? The Wikipedia article has a definition of a professional engineer right in there, and what you said did not agree with it at all.
      - Kranar 8y ago
        Hmm... I also read the link and what they said is spot on. Furthermore they even quoted part of the relevant section justifying their claim.
        Bahamut 8y ago
        Not sure what you’re reading, but it said nothing about requiring a license - what the person said was very different than the definition cited. In fact, the obsession over the license part clearly misses the mark. This is what the summary mentions as the only supporting evidence of any sort of credentialing: “The foundational qualifications of an engineer typically include a 4-year bachelor's degree in an engineering discipline, or in some jurisdictions, a master's degree in an engineering discipline plus 4–6 years of peer-reviewed professional practice (culminating in a project report or thesis) and passage of engineering board examinations.” Note that the word used is “typically” - this is very different than being a requirement. The definition of a professional engineer cited mentions no such credentialing required, speaking in broad terms of the characteristics & responsibilities of one, but no narrow hallmark of how one reaches the title. The part he quoted is far from verifying his/her claim - just the opposite, it is evidence that he/she is misusing the term professional engineer and is not distinguishing from a licensed professional engineer from a professional engineer.
    - 8y ago
- pandler 8y ago
  In the US, there’s a difference between a professional Engineer and a Professional Engineer. Professional Engineer requires certification (I think they even give you a ring or something), but you can still work professionally as an Engineer without the certification. The difference, roughly, if I remember correctly, is that Professional Engineers are the only ones who can “sign off” on work and essentially assume liability. Therefore, you can be an uncertified Engineer as long as you’re working under someone certified or if your work doesn’t require sign-off from someone certified. Are there any PE’s here that can tell me if that’s correct?
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Reminds me of this lawsuit, where an engineer was sued by Oregon for criticizing traffic infrastructure (a red light camera) and calling himself an engineer: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/08/criticizing-red-light-cameras-is-not-a-punishable-offense-oregon-concedes/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/0...
- jjeaff 8y ago
  So if you are doing the same work, maybe even better than a Professional Engineer, they are doing engineering work, and you are just... twiddling your thumbs?
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    That might be "engineering work" but it isn't the type of work that legally requires a P.Eng (or P.Eng supervision). I can have my assistant to draft a memo, even interview a client, that doesn't make him a lawyer. And he certainly isn't allowed to hold himself out as such to the public.
- thx4allthestuff 8y ago
  Someone should go back in time to inform DaVinci to make sure he refrains from all of that not-engineering work. It’s easy for people to forget that the engineering came first. The students came after. You can argue the point all day, but it will always come down to one person figuring shit out by themselves.
- creatornator 8y ago
  This isn't true at all. Most engineers never get a PE. It's not worth it unless you are working on public works projects or civil engineering things. It's very reductive to say that work isn't engineering unless you have a PE.

rightbyte 8y ago

Hopefully not. The Glassdoor article is a typical SEO spam write-up. Their data is generally so bad it's annoying.

astura 8y ago

Yeah and Publix is apparently hiring pharmacists without a degree apparently. Total BS, to be a pharmacist you need to have a Doctor of Pharmacy (which is an advanced degree!) and be licensed by the appropriate government entity. Those 6-8 years of schooling aren't exactly optional.

jjeaff 8y ago
You are correct about the title. But the need for a pharmacy degree in a pill dispensary seems dubious. They literally take the RX and count the pills out. Obviously, you can ask the pharmacist questions and get additional info, but that's not required for someone to hand me my vitamin D supplements.
- astura 8y ago
  Except they specifically listed "pharmacist," not "pharmacy technician" or "pharmacy assistant."

Datenstrom 8y ago

I agree that for some engineering fields an official certification of some sort should be required. There are other roads to obtaining the required knowledge for that certification though, and attending university should absolutely not be the only way to obtain certification. At the very least standardized tests. It would save highly motivated self learners or people learning in an apprenticeship type situation such as an open source contributer years of their life, lots of money, and allow them to more quickly contribute to society.