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I find your consumerism narrative unconvincing as you've laid it out here. I am, however, curious how much you blame mobile devices and social media, because th

I find your consumerism narrative unconvincing as you've laid it out here. I am, however, curious how much you blame mobile devices and social media, because that seems like (a) the Big Thing that's recently changed, and (b) because narratives and my experience around why people choose superficial connection or social disconnection through the use of social media and mobile devices seems very convincing and common. Wish we had more rigorous data on causation here though.

freddie_mercury 8y ago
You might want to check out Robert Putnam's "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital" which makes similar arguments as the OP and was published in 1995, well before mobile phones had really taken off. (I see now the article has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, too.)
vinceguidry 8y ago
There's certainly a role to play there, but I subordinate the technological roles underneath the commercial ones. Our mobile devices and social media, like the rest of our society, leave us feeling catered to, but not fulfilled. We can go to Instagram and see lots of beautiful photographic artwork, and even contribute to it yourself, but taking a beautiful picture is not the same as having a beautiful life, and can indeed blind you to the amount of effort it takes to construct it behind the relatively much much smaller amount of effort it takes to snap a decent picture. We can go to Facebook and discover what us tech kids figured out way back in the nineties, that interacting with people outside of meatspace removes our inner filters and simultaneously removes the all-important communication channel of tone of voice, leading every sentence to feel like an attack to be defended from. We get an intense "intellectual" experience without having to do the work of actually understanding not just our own positions, but also how to best communicate and distill those positions to others. Catered to, not fulfilled. We can pick up our phones and obtain, on tap, video games that engage our minds with an experience that's compelling enough to hold attention without the work of slowly building up skills or having to coordinate sit-down time with our fellow humans to hone those skills with. Catered to, not fulfilled. If you get good at Candy Crush, what bragging rights have you earned? Technology has finished the job of driving us apart from our peers, but it didn't begin it. It's the proximate, not underlying cause. Technology used to bring us together, we used to prioritize that which allowed us to spend time and engage over a greater surface area than 'mere' conversation. We all watched network, then later cable, news and then talk about what we all saw at the diner or bar. Now every single social interaction we have has been gamified and monetized to a far more granular degree, and our third spaces sit ossified in the corner like a beaten step-sibling. Technology, the phone in our pocket, only has a small role to play. If Americans wanted more and deeper and harder social interaction, we'd demand social media and phone apps that would give it to us. I believe China's mobile app ecosystem is pretty good at providing technology that brings them together rather than drives them apart. But Americans don't want that, we want to be catered to.
- avcdsuia 8y ago
  > China's mobile app ecosystem is pretty good at providing technology that brings them together rather than drives them apart What makes you think of that? Please elaborate. IMO people chat, share stuff, pay and do others things in the same app(wechat) is neither necessary nor helpful for bringing them together.
  - vinceguidry 8y ago
    It's less about what they provide and more about how they use it. Americans use technology to wall themselves off from others, Asia in general with the exception of the unfathomable Japanese, uses technology to assist and facilitate, the same way we used to use it until the last few years. If an American wants to connect with a fellow American, they must first find a convincing reason to. We don't just talk to each other anymore. The rest of the world is not like this. China is merely one example. It's America that's the exception. China is the rule.

freddie_mercury 8y ago

You might want to check out Robert Putnam's "Bowling Alone: America's Declining Social Capital" which makes similar arguments as the OP and was published in 1995, well before mobile phones had really taken off. (I see now the article has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, too.)

vinceguidry 8y ago

There's certainly a role to play there, but I subordinate the technological roles underneath the commercial ones. Our mobile devices and social media, like the rest of our society, leave us feeling catered to, but not fulfilled. We can go to Instagram and see lots of beautiful photographic artwork, and even contribute to it yourself, but taking a beautiful picture is not the same as having a beautiful life, and can indeed blind you to the amount of effort it takes to construct it behind the relatively much much smaller amount of effort it takes to snap a decent picture. We can go to Facebook and discover what us tech kids figured out way back in the nineties, that interacting with people outside of meatspace removes our inner filters and simultaneously removes the all-important communication channel of tone of voice, leading every sentence to feel like an attack to be defended from. We get an intense "intellectual" experience without having to do the work of actually understanding not just our own positions, but also how to best communicate and distill those positions to others. Catered to, not fulfilled. We can pick up our phones and obtain, on tap, video games that engage our minds with an experience that's compelling enough to hold attention without the work of slowly building up skills or having to coordinate sit-down time with our fellow humans to hone those skills with. Catered to, not fulfilled. If you get good at Candy Crush, what bragging rights have you earned? Technology has finished the job of driving us apart from our peers, but it didn't begin it. It's the proximate, not underlying cause. Technology used to bring us together, we used to prioritize that which allowed us to spend time and engage over a greater surface area than 'mere' conversation. We all watched network, then later cable, news and then talk about what we all saw at the diner or bar. Now every single social interaction we have has been gamified and monetized to a far more granular degree, and our third spaces sit ossified in the corner like a beaten step-sibling. Technology, the phone in our pocket, only has a small role to play. If Americans wanted more and deeper and harder social interaction, we'd demand social media and phone apps that would give it to us. I believe China's mobile app ecosystem is pretty good at providing technology that brings them together rather than drives them apart. But Americans don't want that, we want to be catered to.

avcdsuia 8y ago
> China's mobile app ecosystem is pretty good at providing technology that brings them together rather than drives them apart What makes you think of that? Please elaborate. IMO people chat, share stuff, pay and do others things in the same app(wechat) is neither necessary nor helpful for bringing them together.
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  It's less about what they provide and more about how they use it. Americans use technology to wall themselves off from others, Asia in general with the exception of the unfathomable Japanese, uses technology to assist and facilitate, the same way we used to use it until the last few years. If an American wants to connect with a fellow American, they must first find a convincing reason to. We don't just talk to each other anymore. The rest of the world is not like this. China is merely one example. It's America that's the exception. China is the rule.