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In Switzerland this is an important part of our lifestyle. There is a whole branch of higher level education programs up to Bologna master level ready for those

In Switzerland this is an important part of our lifestyle. There is a whole branch of higher level education programs up to Bologna master level ready for those graduating from apprenticeship. There are also bridges across to academic path, so you can start working at 16 and yet still go on e.g. to ETH Zurich (a top 20 ranked university) at 20, although you‘re statistically less likely to succeed there. But for me as a dad it mainly means I don’t have to worry too much. I can send my kids to free public school (which is most desireable anyway) and if they don’t have good grades they can still succeed later in life. Almost noone gets left behind that goes through the Swiss system, they almost all earn median-or-above salaries at 25 (~72k).

Dreami 8y ago
As a Swiss citizen, I really, really like our model. The only problem I see, is that foreign people from all kind of countries don't know this system and think that their kids have to go to a "Gymnasium" to reach a university-level education later. That's probably something we should emphasize more!
- zhdc1 8y ago
  The Swiss/German/Central European model is extremely confusing for expats, like myself, who grew up outside of the country. Here's a (simplified) diagram of how it works, for anyone who's interested: https://www.edudoc.ch/static/web/bildungssystem/grafik_bildung_e.pdf https://www.edudoc.ch/static/web/bildungssystem/grafik_bildu...
- zorked 8y ago
  I'm a foreig parent in Switzerland and have been put through several hours of being told that Gymnasium is not the only way. I think foreign parents in particular are concerned that their kids are being trapped by a complicated system out of their future chance at a higher education.
  - m_mueller 8y ago
    That‘s the poinz though, there is no trap. You have bridges from vocational education to academic at multiple points - 3rd year gymnasium, vocational maturity, university entrance exam for both bachelor and master. Or you go through one of the very high quality vocational bachelor (and now also master) programs.
    - Dreami 8y ago
      One point I see, if your kid would go for an apprenticeship with the attention of going to a uni of applied sciences later, but then you decide to move to another country. But that's kind of something I can imagine, since your kid could also simply stay there and live as an adult.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
" they almost all earn median-or-above salaries at 25 (~72k)." So you do realize that that most people cannot earn median or above salaries' by definition, right? The number of toilets that need cleaning per capita, in Switzerland is probably similar to that metric in the USA ...
- 1337biz 8y ago
  You will find very few people cleaning toilets in Swizerland that grew up through their education system.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  as someone else pointed out, I distinguished between workers from inside and outside the system, i.e. first generation migrants, thst make up at least 15% of population. Total number of inhabitants without citizenship is somewhere around 30-35%. Then there’s also those who drop out of, or cannot find, apprenticeships. That’s the dark side of the system, around 25% of apprenticeships are dropped, which often leads to below median wages. For those cases there‘s also colprehensive social services though. It‘s much cheaper to invest right at the source of poverty (children of people far below median) than to deal with long term effects such as prisons, poor health etc.

Dreami 8y ago

As a Swiss citizen, I really, really like our model. The only problem I see, is that foreign people from all kind of countries don't know this system and think that their kids have to go to a "Gymnasium" to reach a university-level education later. That's probably something we should emphasize more!

zhdc1 8y ago
The Swiss/German/Central European model is extremely confusing for expats, like myself, who grew up outside of the country. Here's a (simplified) diagram of how it works, for anyone who's interested: https://www.edudoc.ch/static/web/bildungssystem/grafik_bildung_e.pdf https://www.edudoc.ch/static/web/bildungssystem/grafik_bildu...
zorked 8y ago
I'm a foreig parent in Switzerland and have been put through several hours of being told that Gymnasium is not the only way. I think foreign parents in particular are concerned that their kids are being trapped by a complicated system out of their future chance at a higher education.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  That‘s the poinz though, there is no trap. You have bridges from vocational education to academic at multiple points - 3rd year gymnasium, vocational maturity, university entrance exam for both bachelor and master. Or you go through one of the very high quality vocational bachelor (and now also master) programs.
  - Dreami 8y ago
    One point I see, if your kid would go for an apprenticeship with the attention of going to a uni of applied sciences later, but then you decide to move to another country. But that's kind of something I can imagine, since your kid could also simply stay there and live as an adult.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

" they almost all earn median-or-above salaries at 25 (~72k)." So you do realize that that most people cannot earn median or above salaries' by definition, right? The number of toilets that need cleaning per capita, in Switzerland is probably similar to that metric in the USA ...

1337biz 8y ago
You will find very few people cleaning toilets in Swizerland that grew up through their education system.
m_mueller 8y ago
as someone else pointed out, I distinguished between workers from inside and outside the system, i.e. first generation migrants, thst make up at least 15% of population. Total number of inhabitants without citizenship is somewhere around 30-35%. Then there’s also those who drop out of, or cannot find, apprenticeships. That’s the dark side of the system, around 25% of apprenticeships are dropped, which often leads to below median wages. For those cases there‘s also colprehensive social services though. It‘s much cheaper to invest right at the source of poverty (children of people far below median) than to deal with long term effects such as prisons, poor health etc.