4 ms·
> I'm a fairly traditionally feminine woman and spent a couple of decades as a homemaker and full-time mom. I am routinely met with open hostility from self pro
by newscracker 8y ago
> I'm a fairly traditionally feminine woman and spent a couple of decades as a homemaker and full-time mom. I am routinely met with open hostility from self proclaimed trans activists, feminists, etc.
> I personally like "manly men" and that's also not a PC thing to admit to. So I will suggest it isn't just men the world is saying "good riddance" to. It's also women in some sense.
I think, in this context, we need better and likely newer vocabulary. I don't believe that others would despise you or any other woman or man or an intersex person or someone in transition for liking certain characteristics (physical and/or behavioral) traditionally and historically associated with men.
The issue seems to be — while we're untangling all the discrimination, stereotyping and prejudices — that the current and older terms (like "manly man") reek of all these negative things that are being questioned (where newer ways are being sought to deal with). The impact of such broad terms is wider than what people may generally think of.
To make a comparison (which may be taken differently by different people), it's like using the "N" word and assuming that even a neutral or seemingly positive reference should be accepted by others.
Language is changing all the time and adapting to the times. In this particular case, I believe we should break down what something like "manly man" means into constituent parts and try to use decoupled (from the original term), yet concise and non-triggering, ways of expressing the same. It may not be easy. It may sound weird at first. But it's something we need as a society.
Lest this be dismissed as "oh, we just need new words to fix the world", I'd like to reiterate that the basis is to allow thoughts to change.
- DoreenMichele 8y agoFWIW, after posting, I did contemplate adding: Contrary to popular opinion, manly man and misogynistic asshole aren't actually synonyms.
- newscracker 8y agoI didn't even think of these two terms together in this context and I don't think of those as synonyms, and my usual thoughts in this case are about the characteristics and attributes that are used to discriminate against those who don't seem to be "manly men" or those who seem to be "manly men", while society (or parents or others) wants them to be and fulfill what they (the others) think is their traditional role. Tradition is not set in stone. Nothing is. The clash is sometimes with certain behaviors, but it's also many a times with prejudiced associations that discriminate and affect others. P.S.: I also believe that short pieces of written words and sentences can be misinterpreted online, and probably malice attribute to where there is none.
- DoreenMichele 8y agoI was agreeing with you. I am only saying so because my impression is that is not your takeaway here.
- rustcharm 8y agoOne thing that's odd is the "progressive" community thinks that people don't have a right to an "affectional preference" and if you prefer masculine men, or feminine women with flat stomachs, then there's something wrong with you.
- Chris2048 8y ago> we need better and likely newer vocabulary What about trans-women that want to be called women? Who see being called "trans" or "man" as an insult? Isn't this the same kind of gate-keeping as the people who insist trans-women are men? neither side might accept the new vocab precisely because they are a) reinforcing the old concept, or b) reinforcing an inverted version of the old concepts. Neither wish to create a new category, just define the same old ones.