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I grew up and live in Seattle, where loneliness and meeting people is such problem we have our own Wikipedia page about it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattl

I grew up and live in Seattle, where loneliness and meeting people is such problem we have our own Wikipedia page about it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze When meeting people from other cities, it is hard to explain exactly how bad Seattle is. One case in point, the Seattle meet up scene is dead compared to other similar cities. Even the engineering groups (PHP, React Native) that have hundreds of active participates in other cities will have dozens to none in Seattle. Put 10 people from Seattle in a room and suggest an activity, and everyone will nod their heads, say that sounds like a great idea, and then never take the final steps of organizing to do it. This Seattle mentality lead me to found https://www.thawd.net https://www.thawd.net where we are melting the social freeze. I'm a technologist, so I have to believe that technology can solve problems, and I hope that the system Thawd is building can help reduce loneliness. The tl;dr is that Thawd removes all the friction of social activities, and presents the user with a great big "get me together with other people right now" button. Everything Thawd does happens super short term, 3-72 hours in the future, and our MVP is not eating dinner alone, we form a group of people who'll enjoy spending a couple hours talking with each other. If I don't solve the problem, I sure hope someone else does, because, honestly, Seattle is a lonely place to live.

mannanj 8y ago
I feel like I have a similar problem here in the DC area particularly as an engineer. All the meet ups and activities around here I find not fulfilling enough, and have a disconnect with actually wanting to pull through. Is this coming to my area? Or could you possibly show me how this works with a small demo or something so I can maybe help do something similar around here?
- com2kid 8y ago
  It is a full on startup. Mobile apps on iOS and Android paired with a backend service for reservations and group matching. Thawd is launching first in Seattle, then it'll go city by city.
- jcstryker 8y ago
  Since you are in the DC area I can plug the DC Code & Coffee[0] and their sister meetup NoVA Code & Coffee[1]. Both are great, active biweekly meetups with around 40-60 attendees each time. Its not just for software engineers, we get data science, devops, security, etc. people coming in. Even people not in tech but looking to make a switch. Its a lot of fun actually. [0] https://www.meetup.com/dc-code-coffee/ https://www.meetup.com/dc-code-coffee/ [1] https://www.meetup.com/NoVA-Code-Coffee/ https://www.meetup.com/NoVA-Code-Coffee/
- sndean 8y ago
  As someone who grew up in/around DC and works almost entirely with recent transplants (mostly Southerners, for some reason), I think that Seattle Freeze article definitely applies here, too. Lots of my coworkers seem to have had (or are still having) issues making friends. Not stated explicitly, but I think some of them have quit or will quit as a result. They've had better luck meeting people when traveling. It's kinda sad.
Camillo 8y ago
It's not much better in San Francisco, in my experience. Even with the gender imbalance, it's easier to find a girlfriend than to make a friend.
- com2kid 8y ago
  Everyone I've met who has moved up here from SF says how much better SF is. Seattle is just really strange. You can live here years and years and be lucky to meet more than a couple of people. Of course YMMV, I know people who can walk into a random bar and walk out with 5 best new buds for life. :)
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    >Seattle is just really strange. You can live here years and years and be lucky to meet more than a couple of people. I met all of my friends within 3 months of moving here and haven't made a single new one in almost 3 years.
wenc 8y ago
That’s interesting. Chicago is nowhere near the tech city that Seattle is, but I’ve found the tech meetup scene here to be pretty active and decent. Interestingly, some of the best meetups here (devops, tech in motion etc.) aren’t organized by tech folks but by non-tech folks working for tech companies. Also I’ve found Chicagoans to be a friendly lot in general, including the techie types. Maybe it’s the midwestern thing, but it’s relatively easy to strike up a conversation with strangers. I think it has to do with a more balanced ratio folks in engineering and non engineering roles. Many of tech companies here are oriented around finance and marketing, rather than pure engineering. Empirically I’ve found that meetups comprising solely of high IQ nerdy folks (eg C/C++ meetups) to be fairly awkward. I don’t want to fall into lazy stereotyping but I wonder if by concentrating certain types of talent in one area, one is inadvertently optimizing for specific traits at the expense of others?
eartheaterrr 8y ago
This is a great comment. I live in Seattle, and I think the Seattle Freeze is largely a tragedy of groupthink. If you want to break out, there are a ton of opportunities to learn about this city and meet interesting people. Here are a couple networks that might help someone get started: https://www.facebook.com/SeattleSocialCircle/ https://www.facebook.com/SeattleSocialCircle/ https://theevergrey.com/ https://theevergrey.com/ Getting out of my loneliness was a struggle at first, but after putting in some effort, I now have a great friendships that will last a lifetime. Not only do I feel comfortable meeting new people, but I really enjoy the process as well. Here are some books that have helped me break out of my "freeze" depression: https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1536469595&sr=8-1&keywords=charisma+myth&dpID=51VDzOa-ykL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnet... https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment-ebook/dp/B002361MLA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1536470149&sr=8-3&keywords=power+of+now&dpID=41KrouGOE-L&preST=_SY445_QL70_&dpSrc=srch https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenme... YMMV, but putting in the effort to understand and connect with new personalities has greatly improved my life.
johnchristopher 8y ago
> Thawd removes all the friction of social activities It'd be interesting to explore the idea that the friction might be an essential or an important step into building long lasting relationships.
- com2kid 8y ago
  Oh certainly certain types of stress are. Indeed, it is well known that interpersonal bonds are formed under times of stress. College roommates studying for finals together, soldiers going through boot camp, business partners getting off the ground, stress brings people together. Most of today's world revolves around removing stress, and I agree that is a part of why making friends is harder.
- tomjen3 8y ago
  That seems likely to be true as you progress down the funnel of friendship, but that doesn't mean you want friction at the initial levels.
didibus 8y ago
Best of luck, but I'm not sure it'll work in Seattle. I think it would fare better in other cities like Nashville for example. I feel Seattle has a curse. And the issue is not with meeting people. At least not for me. I meet people easily, and you could say I have many friends in Seattle, but it doesn't provide me joy. Because frankly, everyone is boring and uninteresting, including me. Seattle has a way to turn people into boring and uninteresting entities. I was fun and interesting before moving here, now I'm boring and stale. I'm exaggerating, but I think there's some small truth to this, and its the cause of the Seattle freeze. It's very strange. Maybe its the lack of sunlight. Maybe its the layout of the city. Maybe its the high cost of living, or the abundance of people who didn't grew up here, or tech. But it seems everyone defines themselves through their job, and everyone has pretty much the same job, and not much else going for them. It makes it hard to connect in meaningful ways. So you might rather stay in, play games, watch tv, go on a hike alone, etc. Then hang out with other Seatellite.
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  >Maybe its the lack of sunlight. Maybe its the layout of the city. Maybe its the high cost of living, or the abundance of people who didn't grew up here, or tech. But it seems everyone defines themselves through their job, and everyone has pretty much the same job, and not much else going for them. All of the above. Commuting 1-3 hours every day solely due to traffic the city is doing absolutely nothing about so you end up having an 11-13 hour day most days, most non-engineers having to live 10-40 miles outside of the city where all you can really do is stay inside, you work so much in the city that going back there or staying there after work is mentally painful, the homeless problem and seeing all kinds of stuff a human shouldn't see such as death on the streets or people high as s#-t on meth roaming around the city screaming about shooting up schools, the cost of living is far too high in the entire region for a lot of minimum wage ($15/hr is not liveable within 10+ miles of the city) workers. Unless you live in the city, traveling to a friends house can be 45min - 2 hours by public transit. Employers don't give vacation time unless you're corporate and are a $100k+ salary worker. Employers needed to be mandated by the city to just give 5 paid sick days. Seattle is very exploitative and fisically right wing; its not this socialist paradise everyone makes it out to be. I'm personally exhausted on my weekends. My week ends up being ~60 hours with my commute and none of that is at home.
kpennell 8y ago
The solution for me was leaving Seattle altogether. What a desperately difficult place to get human interaction in.
kpennell 8y ago
Boulder, CO and Seattle, WA were extremely socially frustrating places for me. In Seattle, they make it pretty clear they don't want to know you or talk to you. In Boulder, they seem like they do, but then they never show up. Denver was a totally different scene. Oakland, is pretty amazing. Berlin, in the acroyoga scene, incredible. Don't let yourself stay in cities that make you really unhappy!
prolikewh0a 8y ago
I think technology is the reason we're lonely. We can talk to people without seeing them or hearing their voice, we can ghost on people while talking to them, we can easily find another event or person to hang out with that isn't you, dating is entirely and solely based on physical attraction and swiping either way on someone's picture, you can look at other people from up to 50, 100 miles away if you want where we just had social circles and 'tribes' before. I've given up on dating here in Seattle, it's extremely tough even as a lesbian here. Our social lives are fairly superficial I feel. I feel like I'm now part of the Seattle freeze after 3 years, but it's not exactly hard to make friends here. I'm extremely shy and have bad social anxiety, but managed to make quality lasting friends when I got here by using Reddit, Facebook groups, and meetup (no longer use any of these, so add +50 depression points). Most still talk to me and hang out with me frequently. It's also rainy, dark, with crippling depression for 9/12 months.

mannanj 8y ago

I feel like I have a similar problem here in the DC area particularly as an engineer. All the meet ups and activities around here I find not fulfilling enough, and have a disconnect with actually wanting to pull through. Is this coming to my area? Or could you possibly show me how this works with a small demo or something so I can maybe help do something similar around here?

com2kid 8y ago
It is a full on startup. Mobile apps on iOS and Android paired with a backend service for reservations and group matching. Thawd is launching first in Seattle, then it'll go city by city.
jcstryker 8y ago
Since you are in the DC area I can plug the DC Code & Coffee[0] and their sister meetup NoVA Code & Coffee[1]. Both are great, active biweekly meetups with around 40-60 attendees each time. Its not just for software engineers, we get data science, devops, security, etc. people coming in. Even people not in tech but looking to make a switch. Its a lot of fun actually. [0] https://www.meetup.com/dc-code-coffee/ https://www.meetup.com/dc-code-coffee/ [1] https://www.meetup.com/NoVA-Code-Coffee/ https://www.meetup.com/NoVA-Code-Coffee/
sndean 8y ago
As someone who grew up in/around DC and works almost entirely with recent transplants (mostly Southerners, for some reason), I think that Seattle Freeze article definitely applies here, too. Lots of my coworkers seem to have had (or are still having) issues making friends. Not stated explicitly, but I think some of them have quit or will quit as a result. They've had better luck meeting people when traveling. It's kinda sad.

Camillo 8y ago

It's not much better in San Francisco, in my experience. Even with the gender imbalance, it's easier to find a girlfriend than to make a friend.

com2kid 8y ago
Everyone I've met who has moved up here from SF says how much better SF is. Seattle is just really strange. You can live here years and years and be lucky to meet more than a couple of people. Of course YMMV, I know people who can walk into a random bar and walk out with 5 best new buds for life. :)
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  >Seattle is just really strange. You can live here years and years and be lucky to meet more than a couple of people. I met all of my friends within 3 months of moving here and haven't made a single new one in almost 3 years.

wenc 8y ago

That’s interesting. Chicago is nowhere near the tech city that Seattle is, but I’ve found the tech meetup scene here to be pretty active and decent. Interestingly, some of the best meetups here (devops, tech in motion etc.) aren’t organized by tech folks but by non-tech folks working for tech companies. Also I’ve found Chicagoans to be a friendly lot in general, including the techie types. Maybe it’s the midwestern thing, but it’s relatively easy to strike up a conversation with strangers. I think it has to do with a more balanced ratio folks in engineering and non engineering roles. Many of tech companies here are oriented around finance and marketing, rather than pure engineering. Empirically I’ve found that meetups comprising solely of high IQ nerdy folks (eg C/C++ meetups) to be fairly awkward. I don’t want to fall into lazy stereotyping but I wonder if by concentrating certain types of talent in one area, one is inadvertently optimizing for specific traits at the expense of others?

eartheaterrr 8y ago

This is a great comment. I live in Seattle, and I think the Seattle Freeze is largely a tragedy of groupthink. If you want to break out, there are a ton of opportunities to learn about this city and meet interesting people. Here are a couple networks that might help someone get started: https://www.facebook.com/SeattleSocialCircle/ https://www.facebook.com/SeattleSocialCircle/ https://theevergrey.com/ https://theevergrey.com/ Getting out of my loneliness was a struggle at first, but after putting in some effort, I now have a great friendships that will last a lifetime. Not only do I feel comfortable meeting new people, but I really enjoy the process as well. Here are some books that have helped me break out of my "freeze" depression: https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnetism/dp/1591845947/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1536469595&sr=8-1&keywords=charisma+myth&dpID=51VDzOa-ykL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnet... https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment-ebook/dp/B002361MLA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1536470149&sr=8-3&keywords=power+of+now&dpID=41KrouGOE-L&preST=_SY445_QL70_&dpSrc=srch https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenme... YMMV, but putting in the effort to understand and connect with new personalities has greatly improved my life.

johnchristopher 8y ago

> Thawd removes all the friction of social activities It'd be interesting to explore the idea that the friction might be an essential or an important step into building long lasting relationships.

com2kid 8y ago
Oh certainly certain types of stress are. Indeed, it is well known that interpersonal bonds are formed under times of stress. College roommates studying for finals together, soldiers going through boot camp, business partners getting off the ground, stress brings people together. Most of today's world revolves around removing stress, and I agree that is a part of why making friends is harder.
tomjen3 8y ago
That seems likely to be true as you progress down the funnel of friendship, but that doesn't mean you want friction at the initial levels.

didibus 8y ago

Best of luck, but I'm not sure it'll work in Seattle. I think it would fare better in other cities like Nashville for example. I feel Seattle has a curse. And the issue is not with meeting people. At least not for me. I meet people easily, and you could say I have many friends in Seattle, but it doesn't provide me joy. Because frankly, everyone is boring and uninteresting, including me. Seattle has a way to turn people into boring and uninteresting entities. I was fun and interesting before moving here, now I'm boring and stale. I'm exaggerating, but I think there's some small truth to this, and its the cause of the Seattle freeze. It's very strange. Maybe its the lack of sunlight. Maybe its the layout of the city. Maybe its the high cost of living, or the abundance of people who didn't grew up here, or tech. But it seems everyone defines themselves through their job, and everyone has pretty much the same job, and not much else going for them. It makes it hard to connect in meaningful ways. So you might rather stay in, play games, watch tv, go on a hike alone, etc. Then hang out with other Seatellite.

prolikewh0a 8y ago
>Maybe its the lack of sunlight. Maybe its the layout of the city. Maybe its the high cost of living, or the abundance of people who didn't grew up here, or tech. But it seems everyone defines themselves through their job, and everyone has pretty much the same job, and not much else going for them. All of the above. Commuting 1-3 hours every day solely due to traffic the city is doing absolutely nothing about so you end up having an 11-13 hour day most days, most non-engineers having to live 10-40 miles outside of the city where all you can really do is stay inside, you work so much in the city that going back there or staying there after work is mentally painful, the homeless problem and seeing all kinds of stuff a human shouldn't see such as death on the streets or people high as s#-t on meth roaming around the city screaming about shooting up schools, the cost of living is far too high in the entire region for a lot of minimum wage ($15/hr is not liveable within 10+ miles of the city) workers. Unless you live in the city, traveling to a friends house can be 45min - 2 hours by public transit. Employers don't give vacation time unless you're corporate and are a $100k+ salary worker. Employers needed to be mandated by the city to just give 5 paid sick days. Seattle is very exploitative and fisically right wing; its not this socialist paradise everyone makes it out to be. I'm personally exhausted on my weekends. My week ends up being ~60 hours with my commute and none of that is at home.

kpennell 8y ago

The solution for me was leaving Seattle altogether. What a desperately difficult place to get human interaction in.

kpennell 8y ago

Boulder, CO and Seattle, WA were extremely socially frustrating places for me. In Seattle, they make it pretty clear they don't want to know you or talk to you. In Boulder, they seem like they do, but then they never show up. Denver was a totally different scene. Oakland, is pretty amazing. Berlin, in the acroyoga scene, incredible. Don't let yourself stay in cities that make you really unhappy!

prolikewh0a 8y ago

I think technology is the reason we're lonely. We can talk to people without seeing them or hearing their voice, we can ghost on people while talking to them, we can easily find another event or person to hang out with that isn't you, dating is entirely and solely based on physical attraction and swiping either way on someone's picture, you can look at other people from up to 50, 100 miles away if you want where we just had social circles and 'tribes' before. I've given up on dating here in Seattle, it's extremely tough even as a lesbian here. Our social lives are fairly superficial I feel. I feel like I'm now part of the Seattle freeze after 3 years, but it's not exactly hard to make friends here. I'm extremely shy and have bad social anxiety, but managed to make quality lasting friends when I got here by using Reddit, Facebook groups, and meetup (no longer use any of these, so add +50 depression points). Most still talk to me and hang out with me frequently. It's also rainy, dark, with crippling depression for 9/12 months.