4 ms·

This happened to a friend of mine. He does heroin recreationally and isn't addicted and doesn't get withdrawal symptoms. The court mandated he go to treatment a

by mveety 8y ago

This happened to a friend of mine. He does heroin recreationally and isn't addicted and doesn't get withdrawal symptoms. The court mandated he go to treatment and was basically required to take buprenorphine during treatment regardless of him needing it. The treatment facility also didn't believe him when he told them how much he used and thought he was still using in the facility because he didn't have withdrawal symptoms even though the drug tests said otherwise.

tmp-20150107 8y ago
Seems dubious. On the methadone program I'm on, before they could start the treatment, I had to take multiple toxicology screens to show I was addicted to heroin. These places are incredibly worried about opiate-naive individuals overdosing, which can happen even with the small initial doses on these programs. Note that this is in the UK, which has a much less litigious medical culture USA as well... Not to cast aspersions on your friend, but have you considered that he may be lying to you about only using recreationally, and using this story to explain why he's on a treatment program? One thing about heroin is that it's pretty much impossible to use regularly without becoming addicted. As a heroin addict myself I know that unfortunately deception can easily become a normal part of your life.
- fapjacks 8y ago
  Seems dubious. A test to show you are addicted to opiates does not exist, and also your own experiences do not represent the experiences of every person that ever used drugs.
  - tmp-20150107 8y ago
    Yes, technically the tests are to show the opposite - that you are (not) opiate naive. Someone who can pass multiple closely spaced toxicology screens for heroin (i.e. opiates are not detected) is never going to be admitted to one of these maintenance programs due to the incredibly high risk of death by overdose.
- wavefunction 8y ago
  You said pretty much impossible which means it's possible.
  - mehrdadn 8y ago
    > You said pretty much impossible which means it's possible. Is that how it works? If the sentence had been "walking through a wall via quantum tunneling is pretty much impossible" would you have also translated that to "walking through a wall via quantum tunneling is possible"? Would this have been a helpful translation?
    - wavefunction 8y ago
      Yeah it would be. Do you not understand language? Pretty much impossible means somewhat possible. Don't even fuck around.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - dang 8y ago
        Whoa. We ban accounts for doing personal attacks like this. If you would please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and just post civilly and substantively to HN, we'd be grateful.
- ChristianBundy 8y ago
  > One thing about heroin is that it's pretty much impossible to use regularly without becoming addicted. I'm happy to hear that your treatment is going well -- opioids can be incredibly hard to kick. On the other hand, you might be interested in some of the newer science of what drives addiction: https://theoutline.com/post/2205/this-38-year-old-study-is-still-spreading-bad-ideas-about-addiction https://theoutline.com/post/2205/this-38-year-old-study-is-s...
- refurb 8y ago
  That’s my understanding as well. There are requirements that the person is actually dependent on opioids before they are admitted to a program.
imron 8y ago
> He does heroin recreationally and isn't addicted The time-worn story of how every single addict starts out.
- Aloha 8y ago
  Not every person who uses a particular drug recreationally can or will get addicted to it. It depends on brain chemistry and a variety of other factors.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    That's true broadly, but opiates are a bit of a special case, no?
    - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
      If they were immediately addictive, everyone that got a morphine shot in the hospital would need to seek treatment. It isn't a "one use and you are addicted" or even "occasional (recreational) use will get you addicted". A portion of folks will seek it out more often, but most folks will just seek it out occasionally. With opiates, the bigger danger is daily or consistent use over a period of time. The period depending on how often you take it and how you are using it and the strength of your dose.
  - CodeWriter23 8y ago
    Nope. Do heroin 4 days in a row and you start having withdrawal symptoms. Regardless of any other factors including brain chemistry.
    - girvo 8y ago
      As far as noticable withdrawals, it takes a lot longer than 4 days for someone who’s new to it. If you’ve ever been an addict to opiates before though, yeah that’s about right.
    - Broken_Hippo 8y ago

by mveety 8y ago

tmp-20150107 8y ago

Seems dubious. On the methadone program I'm on, before they could start the treatment, I had to take multiple toxicology screens to show I was addicted to heroin. These places are incredibly worried about opiate-naive individuals overdosing, which can happen even with the small initial doses on these programs. Note that this is in the UK, which has a much less litigious medical culture USA as well... Not to cast aspersions on your friend, but have you considered that he may be lying to you about only using recreationally, and using this story to explain why he's on a treatment program? One thing about heroin is that it's pretty much impossible to use regularly without becoming addicted. As a heroin addict myself I know that unfortunately deception can easily become a normal part of your life.

fapjacks 8y ago
Seems dubious. A test to show you are addicted to opiates does not exist, and also your own experiences do not represent the experiences of every person that ever used drugs.
- tmp-20150107 8y ago
  Yes, technically the tests are to show the opposite - that you are (not) opiate naive. Someone who can pass multiple closely spaced toxicology screens for heroin (i.e. opiates are not detected) is never going to be admitted to one of these maintenance programs due to the incredibly high risk of death by overdose.
wavefunction 8y ago
You said pretty much impossible which means it's possible.
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  > You said pretty much impossible which means it's possible. Is that how it works? If the sentence had been "walking through a wall via quantum tunneling is pretty much impossible" would you have also translated that to "walking through a wall via quantum tunneling is possible"? Would this have been a helpful translation?
  - wavefunction 8y ago
    Yeah it would be. Do you not understand language? Pretty much impossible means somewhat possible. Don't even fuck around.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - dang 8y ago
      Whoa. We ban accounts for doing personal attacks like this. If you would please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and just post civilly and substantively to HN, we'd be grateful.
ChristianBundy 8y ago
> One thing about heroin is that it's pretty much impossible to use regularly without becoming addicted. I'm happy to hear that your treatment is going well -- opioids can be incredibly hard to kick. On the other hand, you might be interested in some of the newer science of what drives addiction: https://theoutline.com/post/2205/this-38-year-old-study-is-still-spreading-bad-ideas-about-addiction https://theoutline.com/post/2205/this-38-year-old-study-is-s...
refurb 8y ago
That’s my understanding as well. There are requirements that the person is actually dependent on opioids before they are admitted to a program.

imron 8y ago

> He does heroin recreationally and isn't addicted The time-worn story of how every single addict starts out.

Aloha 8y ago
Not every person who uses a particular drug recreationally can or will get addicted to it. It depends on brain chemistry and a variety of other factors.
- int_19h 8y ago
  That's true broadly, but opiates are a bit of a special case, no?
  - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
    If they were immediately addictive, everyone that got a morphine shot in the hospital would need to seek treatment. It isn't a "one use and you are addicted" or even "occasional (recreational) use will get you addicted". A portion of folks will seek it out more often, but most folks will just seek it out occasionally. With opiates, the bigger danger is daily or consistent use over a period of time. The period depending on how often you take it and how you are using it and the strength of your dose.
- CodeWriter23 8y ago
  Nope. Do heroin 4 days in a row and you start having withdrawal symptoms. Regardless of any other factors including brain chemistry.
  - girvo 8y ago
    As far as noticable withdrawals, it takes a lot longer than 4 days for someone who’s new to it. If you’ve ever been an addict to opiates before though, yeah that’s about right.
  - Broken_Hippo 8y ago