4 ms·

I feel like in the future, there needs to be a move away from teacher based education to some sort autodidactism. The current models waste so much time.

ddingus 8y ago
The hard truth is not everyone can do that. The current models are broken, but something like them is necessary. I think what you really reach for here is Teachers as mentors when the door is open. We used to allow for that. We don't very much today.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dorchadas 8y ago
  I honestly think the best way might be the method advocated by Sal Kahn. [1] Basically, instead of students going over a lesson in class then taking home work to do to master it, they reverse that. They watch the lesson at home the night before, answer a few questions as an "exit slip" and then sleep on it. The next day they go to class and work on problems/ask questions with the teacher present to help them. While it does have its issues, such as making sure students actually watch the videos, I think this is the best approach for certain subjects, especially math. It allows the students to do the problems where they can get feedback and guidance, instead of struggling with something they're failing to comprehend, which just leads to demotivating them. It also allows them some time to come up with questions related to the topic that might further their learning. There will likely be abuse from students who don't pay attention, and there are plenty of other issues (internet access being a huge one), but I could see some hope in this method. [1] https://blog.blackboard.com/why-salman-khan-thinks-students-should-do-their-homework-in-class/ https://blog.blackboard.com/why-salman-khan-thinks-students-... is a nice write-up about it.
  - anonymous5133 8y ago
    That method is far superior to the current method but teachers don't like it because it takes "resources" away from the teacher. That's the argument I've heard on other forums when discussing the flipping the classroom method. The teachers say that it is better if they explain the material in the classroom and answer questions immediately. So expect to get quite a bit of push back on the flipping the classroom method. That's the reality. I've noticed that there are quite a few teachers that are basically fearful of some new technology or method popping up that replaces them. Education has become far too political from what I've seen.
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      Yeah, I've heard that argument as well, but I think it fails. As a math teacher myself, I would love it if kids would go read about the lecture at home and then we could work problems the next day. I try to do that anyway, but it's difficult when I've got a lot of material to cover and can't give them a day to practice after every lecture. Not to mention that a lot of kids don't know what they don't understand until they attempt to do it
      - anonymous5133 8y ago
        Yeah, for sure. I think it is a great method as well. When I was in college, I had a calculus teacher teach using the flipping the classroom method and it worked amazing. Probably one of the best math classes I have ever taken. At the time I had a serious "math-phobia" and calculus was something I had previously struggled in. The teacher basically just made youtube videos and explained the concepts. If you didn't understand something you could just re-watch the video. After the video another set of videos explained problems and how to solve them.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        Those attempts do three very important things: Clarify poor understanding. Result in awesome (for them) questions. They will be the ones they need, and often the more aggressive people will ask want type questions, seeking. All high value. Educator will be challenged more deeply and broadly over time as they see better questions over time. New ones require effort, and that brings both greater mastery of the topic and how best to frame it up for people about to jump in and start understanding. Should educators analyze those questions, they can augment all this by a quick "chalk talk" prep session to help all this along, stimulate more and better thinking. This has been standard for me in various education roles over the years. It is rough the first few iterations, then very rewarding for all involved after that. Turns out people, and their diverse backgounds and experiences will both approach things in surprising ways, as well as think in diverse, at times, equally surprising ways. Understanding that better, as well as having some broad experience seen over time, very seriously improved my ability to identify with a given student and have a more accurate mental map of where they are. I can then seek to fill in gaps, or entertain extensions (their seeking) as time and their desire permit. Worth it. Not the easiest way, but is my goto every time.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    I am a fan of that method.
pmwhite 8y ago
Sure. Self-taught systems put a lot on responsibility on the student. Apprenticeship systems are very mentor-time-expensive and/or put responsibility on the student. If the students were already so great at this, they could make do with so-so teachers. We do not expect as much from K-6 at least, for good reason. And that will not change soon.
- adamnemecek 8y ago
  > If the students were already so great at this, they could make do with so-so teachers. It wastes the student's time tho.
anonymous5133 8y ago
I'm working on a project just like that. My MVP is going to be an entire course in an undergraduate college course. It will be the full course, nothing skipped or watered down like you see with most MOOCs these days. I am writing the textbook, study notes, practice problems (fully adaptive with analytics to help the student) and quizzes/exams. Everything is focused on the concept of "have you mastered this topic/skill/subject?". There is also going to be an interactive lecture system which basically works by the student watching some high-quality videos on the subject followed by doing practice problems or simulation exercises. There is also more advanced stuff you can do with the concept like an intelligent tutoring system or adding in features to the lectures where students can ask the "teacher" questions in real time. I have already built a very basic prototype of it and it definitely works. Just imagine that. You're watching a lecture, learning some topic and then it just isn't clicking for you so you can ask a question immediately or ask for clarification on some subject. I am not talking about typing your question into some text box. I am talking about having a head set on where you can ask your question with your voice and then being able to get a response back that really solidifies the concept for you or makes it crystal clear. This is all possible with existing technology. Nothing new needs to be invented, it simply needs to be built. Most MOOCs/online courses are heavily watered down because the workload required to build these types of systems is immense but I think the potential is huge in this area. From what I've seen, the young people definitely want to learn online, at their own pace and have access to high-quality learning platforms. I am also planning on offering the entire courses for free. Not really sure how I'll monetize it. Maybe donations?
- adamnemecek 8y ago
  I’m intrigued. Email me. My email is in my profile.
dorchadas 8y ago
Even trying to learn autodidactally, there's still need for a teacher. Especially if you can work in smaller class sizes where you can ask for personal help and clarification. It's nice to have a teacher work with you in person over problems and other things you're unsure about. Stuff that a one-size-fits-all computer program (or educational system, like we have) can't do. I've noticed that when trying to teach myself advanced math. I wish I had a teacher for those topics, where I could ask questions and just make sure I'm understanding things correctly. Also, you'd have to address on whether they need to do this at home, or if there'd still be a school building they'll need to be at each day. If the former, what do you do for those whose parents aren't home during the day, or who sometimes only get to eat the two meals they're provided at school? How will you deal with kids interacting with each other, and making sure they're not isolated, etc. etc. There's a lot more to think about than just "Online == less time wasting" (and even then, I think it highly depends on the student)
- anonymous5133 8y ago
  The first two questions can be solved through software. I've noticed that most people heavily underestimate what an algorithm is capable of doing. I know most will not believe this but an algorithm can do the same things as a human teacher. In fact, I would even say that in the future the best teachers in the world will be algorithms, not teachers. Also think about how the whole teacher education model currently works. Students go to a lecture with 30 other kids and then the teacher presents the material, explains it and so on. Students ask questions during the lecture but there is very little actual one on one tutoring going on. If the students want one on one time then they will need to go to tutoring center (inconvenient) or teacher office hours. Even then, during those hours you have to hope that the teacher isn't already occupied by another student. Then think about this issues on a global scale. Do you think Zimbabwe or Ethiopia have competent teachers? very few. So most students get nothing at all. They are completely left out. If a global education system is developed with algorithms being the teachers/tutors then that would be a huge revolution. Every student in the world would get an equal shot at having a high-quality education. For the last question. That is a complete separate topic. Kids can get social interaction by a variety of other areas, such as, going to the park, playing with other kids in the neighborhood and so on.

ddingus 8y ago

The hard truth is not everyone can do that. The current models are broken, but something like them is necessary. I think what you really reach for here is Teachers as mentors when the door is open. We used to allow for that. We don't very much today.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dorchadas 8y ago
I honestly think the best way might be the method advocated by Sal Kahn. [1] Basically, instead of students going over a lesson in class then taking home work to do to master it, they reverse that. They watch the lesson at home the night before, answer a few questions as an "exit slip" and then sleep on it. The next day they go to class and work on problems/ask questions with the teacher present to help them. While it does have its issues, such as making sure students actually watch the videos, I think this is the best approach for certain subjects, especially math. It allows the students to do the problems where they can get feedback and guidance, instead of struggling with something they're failing to comprehend, which just leads to demotivating them. It also allows them some time to come up with questions related to the topic that might further their learning. There will likely be abuse from students who don't pay attention, and there are plenty of other issues (internet access being a huge one), but I could see some hope in this method. [1] https://blog.blackboard.com/why-salman-khan-thinks-students-should-do-their-homework-in-class/ https://blog.blackboard.com/why-salman-khan-thinks-students-... is a nice write-up about it.
- anonymous5133 8y ago
  That method is far superior to the current method but teachers don't like it because it takes "resources" away from the teacher. That's the argument I've heard on other forums when discussing the flipping the classroom method. The teachers say that it is better if they explain the material in the classroom and answer questions immediately. So expect to get quite a bit of push back on the flipping the classroom method. That's the reality. I've noticed that there are quite a few teachers that are basically fearful of some new technology or method popping up that replaces them. Education has become far too political from what I've seen.
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    Yeah, I've heard that argument as well, but I think it fails. As a math teacher myself, I would love it if kids would go read about the lecture at home and then we could work problems the next day. I try to do that anyway, but it's difficult when I've got a lot of material to cover and can't give them a day to practice after every lecture. Not to mention that a lot of kids don't know what they don't understand until they attempt to do it
    - anonymous5133 8y ago
      Yeah, for sure. I think it is a great method as well. When I was in college, I had a calculus teacher teach using the flipping the classroom method and it worked amazing. Probably one of the best math classes I have ever taken. At the time I had a serious "math-phobia" and calculus was something I had previously struggled in. The teacher basically just made youtube videos and explained the concepts. If you didn't understand something you could just re-watch the video. After the video another set of videos explained problems and how to solve them.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      Those attempts do three very important things: Clarify poor understanding. Result in awesome (for them) questions. They will be the ones they need, and often the more aggressive people will ask want type questions, seeking. All high value. Educator will be challenged more deeply and broadly over time as they see better questions over time. New ones require effort, and that brings both greater mastery of the topic and how best to frame it up for people about to jump in and start understanding. Should educators analyze those questions, they can augment all this by a quick "chalk talk" prep session to help all this along, stimulate more and better thinking. This has been standard for me in various education roles over the years. It is rough the first few iterations, then very rewarding for all involved after that. Turns out people, and their diverse backgounds and experiences will both approach things in surprising ways, as well as think in diverse, at times, equally surprising ways. Understanding that better, as well as having some broad experience seen over time, very seriously improved my ability to identify with a given student and have a more accurate mental map of where they are. I can then seek to fill in gaps, or entertain extensions (their seeking) as time and their desire permit. Worth it. Not the easiest way, but is my goto every time.
- ddingus 8y ago
  I am a fan of that method.

pmwhite 8y ago

Sure. Self-taught systems put a lot on responsibility on the student. Apprenticeship systems are very mentor-time-expensive and/or put responsibility on the student. If the students were already so great at this, they could make do with so-so teachers. We do not expect as much from K-6 at least, for good reason. And that will not change soon.

adamnemecek 8y ago
> If the students were already so great at this, they could make do with so-so teachers. It wastes the student's time tho.

anonymous5133 8y ago

I'm working on a project just like that. My MVP is going to be an entire course in an undergraduate college course. It will be the full course, nothing skipped or watered down like you see with most MOOCs these days. I am writing the textbook, study notes, practice problems (fully adaptive with analytics to help the student) and quizzes/exams. Everything is focused on the concept of "have you mastered this topic/skill/subject?". There is also going to be an interactive lecture system which basically works by the student watching some high-quality videos on the subject followed by doing practice problems or simulation exercises. There is also more advanced stuff you can do with the concept like an intelligent tutoring system or adding in features to the lectures where students can ask the "teacher" questions in real time. I have already built a very basic prototype of it and it definitely works. Just imagine that. You're watching a lecture, learning some topic and then it just isn't clicking for you so you can ask a question immediately or ask for clarification on some subject. I am not talking about typing your question into some text box. I am talking about having a head set on where you can ask your question with your voice and then being able to get a response back that really solidifies the concept for you or makes it crystal clear. This is all possible with existing technology. Nothing new needs to be invented, it simply needs to be built. Most MOOCs/online courses are heavily watered down because the workload required to build these types of systems is immense but I think the potential is huge in this area. From what I've seen, the young people definitely want to learn online, at their own pace and have access to high-quality learning platforms. I am also planning on offering the entire courses for free. Not really sure how I'll monetize it. Maybe donations?

adamnemecek 8y ago
I’m intrigued. Email me. My email is in my profile.

dorchadas 8y ago

Even trying to learn autodidactally, there's still need for a teacher. Especially if you can work in smaller class sizes where you can ask for personal help and clarification. It's nice to have a teacher work with you in person over problems and other things you're unsure about. Stuff that a one-size-fits-all computer program (or educational system, like we have) can't do. I've noticed that when trying to teach myself advanced math. I wish I had a teacher for those topics, where I could ask questions and just make sure I'm understanding things correctly. Also, you'd have to address on whether they need to do this at home, or if there'd still be a school building they'll need to be at each day. If the former, what do you do for those whose parents aren't home during the day, or who sometimes only get to eat the two meals they're provided at school? How will you deal with kids interacting with each other, and making sure they're not isolated, etc. etc. There's a lot more to think about than just "Online == less time wasting" (and even then, I think it highly depends on the student)

anonymous5133 8y ago
The first two questions can be solved through software. I've noticed that most people heavily underestimate what an algorithm is capable of doing. I know most will not believe this but an algorithm can do the same things as a human teacher. In fact, I would even say that in the future the best teachers in the world will be algorithms, not teachers. Also think about how the whole teacher education model currently works. Students go to a lecture with 30 other kids and then the teacher presents the material, explains it and so on. Students ask questions during the lecture but there is very little actual one on one tutoring going on. If the students want one on one time then they will need to go to tutoring center (inconvenient) or teacher office hours. Even then, during those hours you have to hope that the teacher isn't already occupied by another student. Then think about this issues on a global scale. Do you think Zimbabwe or Ethiopia have competent teachers? very few. So most students get nothing at all. They are completely left out. If a global education system is developed with algorithms being the teachers/tutors then that would be a huge revolution. Every student in the world would get an equal shot at having a high-quality education. For the last question. That is a complete separate topic. Kids can get social interaction by a variety of other areas, such as, going to the park, playing with other kids in the neighborhood and so on.