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> If riders can't get a good snooze in, they're way less willing to pay $178 to $228 per round-trip. (A savvy flier who buys their ticket at the right time can

> If riders can't get a good snooze in, they're way less willing to pay $178 to $228 per round-trip. (A savvy flier who buys their ticket at the right time can usually snag a trip between SFO and LAX for about $115). Can someone explain why you'd pay more for an 8h bus ride than a 1h flight?

manigandham 8y ago
It's in the article > "Cabin’s idea is that people would rather spend eight hours asleep while traveling than four hours getting to and from an airport and in a cramped seat in the air." Most people do not have upgrades or priority access and have to spend a lot of time dealing with checkin, security, luggage and general uncomfort which makes small trips much longer than just flight time. Also many travelers arrive the day before an event to get a hotel and sleep, so perhaps this extra time and cost can be avoided with the bus.
- stephengillie 8y ago
  A 1h flight takes a lot longer than 1h. To do some math: 8am flight: 4a: Wake up, complete packing. 5a: Travel to airport 6a: Check-in 7a: Security (take off shoes) 8a: Takeoff, if not delayed 9a: Landing 10a: Checkout complete? 10pm bus: 9p: Travel to bus 10p: Bus departs 2a: Bus layover for driver lunch (assuming 1 driver) 3a: Bus departs layover 7a: Bus arrives 7:15a: Checkout complete. This assumes 1 hour to travel to either bus depot or airport, and that the bus is traveling overnight on empty highways for almost all of the trip. I've never flown so please update any inaccuracies with that time table. > Also many travelers arrive the day before an event to get a hotel and sleep, so perhaps this time and cost can be avoided with the bus. There's a large value in starting your day in the same city where you're working or otherwise spending a lot of time. From not having to spend the time and effort on traveling, to the relaxation of not having to "scene-change" and adjust to the behaviors of people in two different cities. And this package lets the right traveler have both for cheaper. >>> If riders can't get a good snooze in, they're way less willing to pay $178 to $228 per round-trip. (A savvy flier who buys their ticket at the right time can usually snag a trip between SFO and LAX for about $115). This basically combines the bus into both transportation and lodging. For an example, let's use a $250 hotel room. This assumes you'll fly in the day before a 2-day event and fly out the day after, or bus in on the first day and bus out the following night: 1h flight & 3 nights: Flight: $115 Room: $250 x 3 = $750 Total: $865 8h bus & 1 night: Bus: $230 Room: $250 Total: $480 Even if the bus costs twice the plane, it could still save money over the hotel.
  - ryguytilidie 8y ago
    These are some suspect numbers. An hour to "finish packing in the morning", why not do that before you wake up? An hour to check in? I've flown hundreds of times and think this has taken 30 minutes once or twice. An hour for security? Last few times I went, it was less than 15, even without TSA Pre. I mean, sure, if we inflate the numbers badly on one side, that side starts looking worse, but what is the point?
    - ChuckMcM 8y ago
      Agreed but part of the problem with flying is the expected vs actual. Airlines suggest you arrive 2 hours before your flight because if everything goes badly it can take that long to get to your gate, but when it all works well you end up sitting for an hour and a half at that gate. That said, this is a bay area service and SFO security lines are much worse than say San Jose (SJC) security lines simply because there are more flights out of SFO. If you're regular airport is SJC you might regularly only get to the airport an hour before your flight leaves.
    - dabbledash 8y ago
      I think if you ignore the specifics, and just change it to “6am - arrive at airport 2 hrs before flight”, it’s pretty normal. They recommend you arrive at least an hour ahead for domestic flights, and if you’re factoring time for things like parking or the risk of traffic delays, arriving 90 - 120 minutes early is reasonable. (It’s what I do an any rate, reasonable or not). I would basically never take a 1 hour flight (unless it’s a connection). It’s just not worth it. A train or bus is more comfortable and less of a hassle. (It’s suspect to include packing for the flight but not the bus, though. Whether you have to do that has nothing to do with your mode of transportation.)
      - s0rce 8y ago
        Have you flown from the Bay area to LA area. It's so much easier than driving. There's numerous airports on each end. Flights on Southwest are cheap or you can fly semi private on boutique air for about double but still not very expensive compared to these buses. Finally traffic can be terrible even in the middle of nowhere on i5. The train is too slow or doesn't go where you need to be so isn't useful.
- throwaywe2321 8y ago
  Indeed. This is also one of the selling points of the Shinkansen in Japan. Flights are often cheaper, but getting to (cheaper flights) from Narita/Kansai is a total pain in the backside. With the Shinkansen, the seats offer a lot more room, and you get to move from city center to city center, without the absurd security measures involved in modern day air travel. With the Chuo Shinkansen, Japan will have upped the game to the next level.
adwi 8y ago
So you can sleep.
sylvinus 8y ago
To skip security and rides to airports!
chatmasta 8y ago
Yeah, seriously, I don’t get this. I understand the argument that commuting to the airport, security theater etc is a huge pain. And maybe sleeping on the bus would be nice. But I would only take the bus as an alternative if it’s also cheaper than the flight. Otherwise, it seems like the tradeoffs cancel each other out.
- virgilp 8y ago
  The key word in your message is "I". Some people are willing to bet that there are enough people with different priorities/preferences
sosborn 8y ago
I have friends who are deathly afraid of flying that would make this choice in a heartbeat.
ohhellno 8y ago
It can be good if it saves you a hotel room night. Sometimes I schedule travel like this but not very often.
nine_k 8y ago
Plane: 2h commute + check in, 1h flight, 1h commute back. Most of the time you can only read your phone or a book, or snooze during the flight. Not a lot of productive time, and no night sleep to speak of. Bus: 30m commute (I suppose it's not outside the city) + 8h undisturbed ride + 30m commute. You can sleep a normal night while traveling.
- dylan604 8y ago
  The concept of the 8h undisturbed ride is a bit generous. Studies have shown that the 1st night away from home is not an undisturbed night of sleep. From my travels, I can say I fall into this category. Maybe it'll work for some people, good for them. I consider them lucky.

manigandham 8y ago

It's in the article > "Cabin’s idea is that people would rather spend eight hours asleep while traveling than four hours getting to and from an airport and in a cramped seat in the air." Most people do not have upgrades or priority access and have to spend a lot of time dealing with checkin, security, luggage and general uncomfort which makes small trips much longer than just flight time. Also many travelers arrive the day before an event to get a hotel and sleep, so perhaps this extra time and cost can be avoided with the bus.

stephengillie 8y ago
A 1h flight takes a lot longer than 1h. To do some math: 8am flight: 4a: Wake up, complete packing. 5a: Travel to airport 6a: Check-in 7a: Security (take off shoes) 8a: Takeoff, if not delayed 9a: Landing 10a: Checkout complete? 10pm bus: 9p: Travel to bus 10p: Bus departs 2a: Bus layover for driver lunch (assuming 1 driver) 3a: Bus departs layover 7a: Bus arrives 7:15a: Checkout complete. This assumes 1 hour to travel to either bus depot or airport, and that the bus is traveling overnight on empty highways for almost all of the trip. I've never flown so please update any inaccuracies with that time table. > Also many travelers arrive the day before an event to get a hotel and sleep, so perhaps this time and cost can be avoided with the bus. There's a large value in starting your day in the same city where you're working or otherwise spending a lot of time. From not having to spend the time and effort on traveling, to the relaxation of not having to "scene-change" and adjust to the behaviors of people in two different cities. And this package lets the right traveler have both for cheaper. >>> If riders can't get a good snooze in, they're way less willing to pay $178 to $228 per round-trip. (A savvy flier who buys their ticket at the right time can usually snag a trip between SFO and LAX for about $115). This basically combines the bus into both transportation and lodging. For an example, let's use a $250 hotel room. This assumes you'll fly in the day before a 2-day event and fly out the day after, or bus in on the first day and bus out the following night: 1h flight & 3 nights: Flight: $115 Room: $250 x 3 = $750 Total: $865 8h bus & 1 night: Bus: $230 Room: $250 Total: $480 Even if the bus costs twice the plane, it could still save money over the hotel.
- ryguytilidie 8y ago
  These are some suspect numbers. An hour to "finish packing in the morning", why not do that before you wake up? An hour to check in? I've flown hundreds of times and think this has taken 30 minutes once or twice. An hour for security? Last few times I went, it was less than 15, even without TSA Pre. I mean, sure, if we inflate the numbers badly on one side, that side starts looking worse, but what is the point?
  - ChuckMcM 8y ago
    Agreed but part of the problem with flying is the expected vs actual. Airlines suggest you arrive 2 hours before your flight because if everything goes badly it can take that long to get to your gate, but when it all works well you end up sitting for an hour and a half at that gate. That said, this is a bay area service and SFO security lines are much worse than say San Jose (SJC) security lines simply because there are more flights out of SFO. If you're regular airport is SJC you might regularly only get to the airport an hour before your flight leaves.
  - dabbledash 8y ago
    I think if you ignore the specifics, and just change it to “6am - arrive at airport 2 hrs before flight”, it’s pretty normal. They recommend you arrive at least an hour ahead for domestic flights, and if you’re factoring time for things like parking or the risk of traffic delays, arriving 90 - 120 minutes early is reasonable. (It’s what I do an any rate, reasonable or not). I would basically never take a 1 hour flight (unless it’s a connection). It’s just not worth it. A train or bus is more comfortable and less of a hassle. (It’s suspect to include packing for the flight but not the bus, though. Whether you have to do that has nothing to do with your mode of transportation.)
    - s0rce 8y ago
      Have you flown from the Bay area to LA area. It's so much easier than driving. There's numerous airports on each end. Flights on Southwest are cheap or you can fly semi private on boutique air for about double but still not very expensive compared to these buses. Finally traffic can be terrible even in the middle of nowhere on i5. The train is too slow or doesn't go where you need to be so isn't useful.
throwaywe2321 8y ago
Indeed. This is also one of the selling points of the Shinkansen in Japan. Flights are often cheaper, but getting to (cheaper flights) from Narita/Kansai is a total pain in the backside. With the Shinkansen, the seats offer a lot more room, and you get to move from city center to city center, without the absurd security measures involved in modern day air travel. With the Chuo Shinkansen, Japan will have upped the game to the next level.

adwi 8y ago

So you can sleep.

sylvinus 8y ago

To skip security and rides to airports!

chatmasta 8y ago

Yeah, seriously, I don’t get this. I understand the argument that commuting to the airport, security theater etc is a huge pain. And maybe sleeping on the bus would be nice. But I would only take the bus as an alternative if it’s also cheaper than the flight. Otherwise, it seems like the tradeoffs cancel each other out.

virgilp 8y ago
The key word in your message is "I". Some people are willing to bet that there are enough people with different priorities/preferences

sosborn 8y ago

I have friends who are deathly afraid of flying that would make this choice in a heartbeat.

ohhellno 8y ago

It can be good if it saves you a hotel room night. Sometimes I schedule travel like this but not very often.

nine_k 8y ago

Plane: 2h commute + check in, 1h flight, 1h commute back. Most of the time you can only read your phone or a book, or snooze during the flight. Not a lot of productive time, and no night sleep to speak of. Bus: 30m commute (I suppose it's not outside the city) + 8h undisturbed ride + 30m commute. You can sleep a normal night while traveling.

dylan604 8y ago
The concept of the 8h undisturbed ride is a bit generous. Studies have shown that the 1st night away from home is not an undisturbed night of sleep. From my travels, I can say I fall into this category. Maybe it'll work for some people, good for them. I consider them lucky.