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Flater management helps. I have seen developers telling managers that they disagree with some requirement or similar in a way that was not possible in Spain. Yo

by kartan 8y ago

Flater management helps. I have seen developers telling managers that they disagree with some requirement or similar in a way that was not possible in Spain. You will have been fired. Also, the mindset in Spain is that you are lucky if you have a job and people keeps bad jobs as family and friends will not understand "why do they complain if they are far better than other people". Sweden has been better off economically, and it has a safety net that allows developers (and other workers) to say NO to very stupid things. When people ask me why I emigrated to Sweden, the answer is easy. It has a healthier work culture than most parts of the world. What use is 20% more salary if I got to live a stressed and miserable life?

pimmen 8y ago
I’m actually thinking of moving to Spain from Sweden (born and raised in Gothenburg) because the real estate market here is absolutely ridiculous and our personal debts a ticking bomb, and a trip to Spain last year exposed me to the vibrant tech startup culture fueled by growing demand from Latin America. Would you say that I’m being foolish? Maybe we could take this discussion privately.
- nunomdc 8y ago
  Just as a curiosity. Where in Spain?
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Not OP, but someone else on HN about 8 months ago [1] suggested Valencia. As they said, it is lovely, inexpensive, and beautiful (we bought a flat there as a vacation home). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15975815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15975815
    - pimmen 8y ago
      Yeah, I was mostly in Andalusia and I thought it was gorgeous so it certainly has that going for it, but I think I would like bigger cities. Especially thinking career wise. (Was very surprised that some Spaniards I met didn’t think Andalusia was something special but that the spruce filled forests of Sweden was a paradise. Grass is greener and all that.)
    - jxub 8y ago
      Seconding Valencia (source: living there for two years). You can buy a 3 bed flat for around 100k€, eat a three-course lunch for 9-15€ and generally enjoy life. Weather in summer can be too wet though and the metro stops every 10-15 minutes compared to the ~2 in Barcelona. Also, tech jobs pay between 11k-45k€ only AFAIK.
  - pimmen 8y ago
    > Just as a curiosity. Where in Spain? My two top picks would be Barcelona and Madrid. Barcelona has real estate prices on par with Stockholm but from what I’ve read a lot of other stuff is cheaper. A city where being carless would be no biggie would be a welcome change, too. Swedes really love their cars even though fuel taxes and other car related stuff is crazy expensive here. I think people mainly choose the car because public transportation still sucks at a lot of places. The Madrid metro really impressed me.
- joelbluminator 8y ago
  If you just need an adventure for a year a two I'd say go for it! BUT, as an expat living in the Netherlands I mostly see people from south Europe immigrating north (to Germany, Netherlands and probably Scandinavia as well). I don't hear many stories of people immigrating south (other than retirees maybe). Spain has the weather going for it, other than that I can't think of any measurement of quality of life where it performs better than Sweden (perhaps besides life expectancy). Who knows maybe you will fall in love with the culture and the weather, but you are coming from one of the highest ranking countries in quality of life. Also, I hope it's obvious to you that going on a trip and living in a place or 2 different things.
  - pimmen 8y ago
    Absolutely, the difference is obvious between the two. I have colleagues who've moved from the South up here who think I'm crazy when I'm talking about it but I should probably mention that the main reason is that I want to try something different from the Northern European culture that I'm so used to, and I want to move somewhere that is closer to the emerging markets when it comes to economic and cultural ties, and Spain is very close to Latin America in that regard. Sweden has a growing populism because we're a very saturated market, sort of becoming like Japan, and I just want to experience something different. I'm not expecting the same social safety net or pay check, or the same culture when it comes to hierarchy and work-life balance. And if it doesn't work out and I miss Sweden too much I'll go back.
    - joelbluminator 8y ago
      So sure yes, definitely go for it! you're a short flight distance away if you've had enough. Being an expat is something I would recommend to anyone, it's a really intense experience.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- kartan 8y ago
  > Would you say that I’m being foolish? No, it is not foolish. I know a few Swedish people that made that move over three years ago, and they have not come back yet. The best company in Barcelona or Madrid is going to be better than the worst in Gothenburg. You may find something really good. It is just that you need to be more selective. The other thing to take into account is that most Spanish people do not speak English. If you speak Spanish, that is not a problem. Otherwise, you need to find an international company that uses English as its primary language. To move to another European country is a very easy way of living in a different culture.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> developers telling managers that they disagree with some requirement or similar in a way that was not possible in Spain As a rule, I've found cultures where teammates express disagreement to be commercially superior to those where they do not. This applies to national as well as to company cultures. It extends past feedback into being open to re-evaluating one's own assumptions. It also facilitates departing one's sense of self from the set of opinions and ideas one happens to hold at a given time.
ahartmetz 8y ago
There is a name for that cultural trait: power distance http://clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimensions/power-distance-index/ http://clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimension...

by kartan 8y ago

pimmen 8y ago

I’m actually thinking of moving to Spain from Sweden (born and raised in Gothenburg) because the real estate market here is absolutely ridiculous and our personal debts a ticking bomb, and a trip to Spain last year exposed me to the vibrant tech startup culture fueled by growing demand from Latin America. Would you say that I’m being foolish? Maybe we could take this discussion privately.

nunomdc 8y ago
Just as a curiosity. Where in Spain?
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Not OP, but someone else on HN about 8 months ago [1] suggested Valencia. As they said, it is lovely, inexpensive, and beautiful (we bought a flat there as a vacation home). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15975815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15975815
  - pimmen 8y ago
    Yeah, I was mostly in Andalusia and I thought it was gorgeous so it certainly has that going for it, but I think I would like bigger cities. Especially thinking career wise. (Was very surprised that some Spaniards I met didn’t think Andalusia was something special but that the spruce filled forests of Sweden was a paradise. Grass is greener and all that.)
  - jxub 8y ago
    Seconding Valencia (source: living there for two years). You can buy a 3 bed flat for around 100k€, eat a three-course lunch for 9-15€ and generally enjoy life. Weather in summer can be too wet though and the metro stops every 10-15 minutes compared to the ~2 in Barcelona. Also, tech jobs pay between 11k-45k€ only AFAIK.
- pimmen 8y ago
  > Just as a curiosity. Where in Spain? My two top picks would be Barcelona and Madrid. Barcelona has real estate prices on par with Stockholm but from what I’ve read a lot of other stuff is cheaper. A city where being carless would be no biggie would be a welcome change, too. Swedes really love their cars even though fuel taxes and other car related stuff is crazy expensive here. I think people mainly choose the car because public transportation still sucks at a lot of places. The Madrid metro really impressed me.
joelbluminator 8y ago
If you just need an adventure for a year a two I'd say go for it! BUT, as an expat living in the Netherlands I mostly see people from south Europe immigrating north (to Germany, Netherlands and probably Scandinavia as well). I don't hear many stories of people immigrating south (other than retirees maybe). Spain has the weather going for it, other than that I can't think of any measurement of quality of life where it performs better than Sweden (perhaps besides life expectancy). Who knows maybe you will fall in love with the culture and the weather, but you are coming from one of the highest ranking countries in quality of life. Also, I hope it's obvious to you that going on a trip and living in a place or 2 different things.
- pimmen 8y ago
  Absolutely, the difference is obvious between the two. I have colleagues who've moved from the South up here who think I'm crazy when I'm talking about it but I should probably mention that the main reason is that I want to try something different from the Northern European culture that I'm so used to, and I want to move somewhere that is closer to the emerging markets when it comes to economic and cultural ties, and Spain is very close to Latin America in that regard. Sweden has a growing populism because we're a very saturated market, sort of becoming like Japan, and I just want to experience something different. I'm not expecting the same social safety net or pay check, or the same culture when it comes to hierarchy and work-life balance. And if it doesn't work out and I miss Sweden too much I'll go back.
  - joelbluminator 8y ago
    So sure yes, definitely go for it! you're a short flight distance away if you've had enough. Being an expat is something I would recommend to anyone, it's a really intense experience.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
kartan 8y ago
> Would you say that I’m being foolish? No, it is not foolish. I know a few Swedish people that made that move over three years ago, and they have not come back yet. The best company in Barcelona or Madrid is going to be better than the worst in Gothenburg. You may find something really good. It is just that you need to be more selective. The other thing to take into account is that most Spanish people do not speak English. If you speak Spanish, that is not a problem. Otherwise, you need to find an international company that uses English as its primary language. To move to another European country is a very easy way of living in a different culture.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> developers telling managers that they disagree with some requirement or similar in a way that was not possible in Spain As a rule, I've found cultures where teammates express disagreement to be commercially superior to those where they do not. This applies to national as well as to company cultures. It extends past feedback into being open to re-evaluating one's own assumptions. It also facilitates departing one's sense of self from the set of opinions and ideas one happens to hold at a given time.

ahartmetz 8y ago

There is a name for that cultural trait: power distance http://clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimensions/power-distance-index/ http://clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimension...