4 ms·

This article seems a bit sensationalized. The examples they give are a single video with 500,000 views, and a couple of channels whose views average 20-30k. If

This article seems a bit sensationalized. The examples they give are a single video with 500,000 views, and a couple of channels whose views average 20-30k. If YouTube is recommending "extreme" channels so often, why aren't they getting more views? > “Lies, propaganda and manipulation are harmful for society, but on their own are not illegal — and so our hands are often tied,” said Mr. Ipsen, of the government-linked internet monitor. Good. I think it's insane that the German government is even trying to establish a Ministry of Truth. It seems now more than ever, we are getting biased reporting from mainstream media outlets, and I guarantee that any government crackdown would not include these mainstream news sources. Here's an example from just a couple of days ago: CNN's Chris Cuomo as well as a number of major news outlets reported on Judge Brett Kavanaugh "snubbing" Fred Guttenberg, father of a victim of the Parkland shooting, by not shaking his hand at the event. None of these outlets bothered to mention that the day before on Twitter, Guttenberg said: "I will be at Kavanaugh hearings and I hope to play a role in ensuring that this man does not become the next Supreme Court Justice." (https://twitter.com/fred_guttenberg/status/1036600460726161408 https://twitter.com/fred_guttenberg/status/10366004607261614...) They also didn't mention that Guttenberg was the only one trying to approach Kavanaugh, or that Kavanaugh's kids were removed from the room for safety concerns shortly prior. That seems like manipulation to me. I don't say this because I want CNN banned, or anything like that. I'm just completely against any censorship, especially government censorship, of ideas. I believe in the liberal values of free exchange of ideas (or "Liberal Science" as Jonathan Rauch calls it, in his excellent book, Kindly Inquisitors).

ehsankia 8y ago
Absolutely. Those numbers are peanuts in Youtube scale. Popular Youtube videos regularly get 10m+ views. It's similar to back when WSJ went digging for days and managed to find 2-3 racist videos with 10k views, then refreshed them until a Coca-Cola ad showed, to screenshot it. Most of these are manipulating reality to drive their narrative. I've yet to see a proper scientific and thorough example of this actually happening.
- ericdykstra 8y ago
  Yeah, just pluggin in the "far-right figure on YouTube" that they highlight under the heading "From fringe to mainstream" into Social Blade, you can see just how "mainstream" this guy is: https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCYo2MjFS5C7Wynyty9wTM7g https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCYo2MjFS5C7Wynyty9w... Subscriber rank: 347,946th Video view rank: 680,665th If YouTube is promoting this content so much, at the very least you would expect the video view rank to be higher than the subscriber rank, right?
- bachbach 8y ago
  The valley is in a bit of moral panic in my opinion.
anonymfus 8y ago
>They also didn't mention that Guttenberg was the only one trying to approach Kavanaugh, or that Kavanaugh's kids were removed from the room for safety concerns shortly prior. That seems like manipulation to me. They didn't mention fake news? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brett-kavanaughs-children-harassed/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brett-kavanaughs-children-...
- repolfx 8y ago
  That article doesn't seem to indicate it's "fake news". Snopes says there's no definitive answer as to why they left, and that different sources give conflicting information. I'm not sure that level of uncertainty rises to the level of stating it's "fake news". At any rate, there are plenty of clearer examples of CNN reporting things that are false. Glenn Greenwald writes a lot on this topic. See the articles he's written about CNN, MSBC, retracted coverage of Russia etc: https://theintercept.com/staff/glenn-greenwald/ https://theintercept.com/staff/glenn-greenwald/
  - ericdykstra 8y ago
    Yeah, there are many, many examples. I just took an extremely biased article from very recent memory to show I wasn't cherrypicking. That's a great resource, though, thanks for the link. You can also use a site like http://newsdiffs.org/ http://newsdiffs.org/ to see when publications retract statements or change headlines quietly.
ethiclub 8y ago
>Good. I think it's insane that the German government is even trying to establish a Ministry of Truth. What is the alternative (if you or anyone is able and comfortable in answering)? Option 1: Let the free market regulate itself. Option 2: Let government govern - And have the state regulate the free market. Option 1 depends on demand from the consumer being ethically driven (rather than purely financial / selfish). I think that society has a long way to go before we can consider option 1 viable. Letting the state regulate however is a terrifying prospect if 'fallen into the wrong hands' or 'the algorithm is biased'. Is anyone aware of the leading conversations / academic & theoretical consensus in best structure / infrastructure / accountability hub for this problem?
- ericdykstra 8y ago
  Government's primary job is to protect liberty, so I would be in favor of legislation that is strictly anti-censorship (such as Social Media Anti-Censorship Act, check #SMACA on Twitter for the outline).

ehsankia 8y ago

Absolutely. Those numbers are peanuts in Youtube scale. Popular Youtube videos regularly get 10m+ views. It's similar to back when WSJ went digging for days and managed to find 2-3 racist videos with 10k views, then refreshed them until a Coca-Cola ad showed, to screenshot it. Most of these are manipulating reality to drive their narrative. I've yet to see a proper scientific and thorough example of this actually happening.

ericdykstra 8y ago
Yeah, just pluggin in the "far-right figure on YouTube" that they highlight under the heading "From fringe to mainstream" into Social Blade, you can see just how "mainstream" this guy is: https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCYo2MjFS5C7Wynyty9wTM7g https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCYo2MjFS5C7Wynyty9w... Subscriber rank: 347,946th Video view rank: 680,665th If YouTube is promoting this content so much, at the very least you would expect the video view rank to be higher than the subscriber rank, right?
bachbach 8y ago
The valley is in a bit of moral panic in my opinion.

anonymfus 8y ago

>They also didn't mention that Guttenberg was the only one trying to approach Kavanaugh, or that Kavanaugh's kids were removed from the room for safety concerns shortly prior. That seems like manipulation to me. They didn't mention fake news? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brett-kavanaughs-children-harassed/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brett-kavanaughs-children-...

repolfx 8y ago
That article doesn't seem to indicate it's "fake news". Snopes says there's no definitive answer as to why they left, and that different sources give conflicting information. I'm not sure that level of uncertainty rises to the level of stating it's "fake news". At any rate, there are plenty of clearer examples of CNN reporting things that are false. Glenn Greenwald writes a lot on this topic. See the articles he's written about CNN, MSBC, retracted coverage of Russia etc: https://theintercept.com/staff/glenn-greenwald/ https://theintercept.com/staff/glenn-greenwald/
- ericdykstra 8y ago
  Yeah, there are many, many examples. I just took an extremely biased article from very recent memory to show I wasn't cherrypicking. That's a great resource, though, thanks for the link. You can also use a site like http://newsdiffs.org/ http://newsdiffs.org/ to see when publications retract statements or change headlines quietly.

ethiclub 8y ago

>Good. I think it's insane that the German government is even trying to establish a Ministry of Truth. What is the alternative (if you or anyone is able and comfortable in answering)? Option 1: Let the free market regulate itself. Option 2: Let government govern - And have the state regulate the free market. Option 1 depends on demand from the consumer being ethically driven (rather than purely financial / selfish). I think that society has a long way to go before we can consider option 1 viable. Letting the state regulate however is a terrifying prospect if 'fallen into the wrong hands' or 'the algorithm is biased'. Is anyone aware of the leading conversations / academic & theoretical consensus in best structure / infrastructure / accountability hub for this problem?

ericdykstra 8y ago
Government's primary job is to protect liberty, so I would be in favor of legislation that is strictly anti-censorship (such as Social Media Anti-Censorship Act, check #SMACA on Twitter for the outline).