4 ms·

No house and staying in Airbnb’s isn’t “homeless.”

by fipple 8y ago

s73v3r_ 8y ago
It's not secure housing, either.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Indeed, but the resource issues are very different. Very basics are still in play, and secure for periods of time. Plans can be made, changed. And the set of options is broader. Homelessness, coupled with, or rooted in poverty is a much more difficult thing than hopping from hotel to airbnb, etc... is. Not that I want to marginalize or judge this excellent thread, or anyone sharing. Not my intent. Just some clarity to improve relevancy.
patientplatypus 8y ago
You are objectively wrong. A homeless individual is defined in section 330(h)(5)(A) as “an individual who lacks housing (without regard to whether the individual is a member of a family), including an individual whose primary residence during the night is a supervised public or private facility (e.g., shelters) that provides temporary living accommodations, and an individual who is a resident in transitional housing.” A homeless person is an individual without permanent housing who may live on the streets; stay in a shelter, mission, single room occupancy facilities, abandoned building or vehicle; or in any other unstable or non-permanent situation. [Section 330 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C., 254b)] And even if you weren't you should show more kindness to those that experience hardship - because that's what good people do.
- homeaway2 8y ago
  In the US, different government departments define homelessness different ways [1]. How and why they came to do that would be a very interesting read. I had looked into this to see what it would take to legally check the "I'm homeless" box on the ACA exemption form, which I believe was under the HHS rule you posted. But that's different from what it would take to get housing assistance from HUD, and that's probably even different than how the average person would define "homeless". [1] https://www.nhchc.org/faq/official-definition-homelessness/ https://www.nhchc.org/faq/official-definition-homelessness/
- yesenadam 8y ago
  You rudely preach kindness, for some reason assume that HN and its users are entirely located somewhere in the USA, and seem to think what a word 'objectively' means is how it's defined in some US law.
newnewpdro 8y ago
Agreed. Homeless colloquially implies it's involuntary and they want but can't afford a more secure place to sleep. I've technically lived homelessly many times, often while employed, commuting from beautiful campgrounds w/showers in off-seasons or nice hotels. I know rich people who live entirely out of hotels and airbnb's who are technically homeless. There's a literal meaning to homeless and a figurative one, most people are using the latter.
opportune 8y ago
I think what differentiates hopping between airbnbs and being homeless is whether you have the financial means to live in more stable conditions. Living in Airbnb’s could mean you’re a luxury traveler spending $100k+ year on accommodation or it could mean you can only pay for shelter on a day to day basis (ie you hustle for cash every day, convert it to some electronic format, and pay rent on a daily basis). There’s also the case where you can afford a 1room Airbnb in an area but not rent, which I also wouldn’t call homelessness
DoreenMichele 8y ago
It fits some definitions of homelessness. You are, for example, considered to be homeless if you are couch surfing and have no permanent address or if you are doubled up illegally with family. This is often termed "hidden homeless." Rough sleeping is not the only situation that qualifies as homeless. A home is about more than a literal roof over your head.
- gaius 8y ago
  Michele I always upvote your posts, you are a solid contributor here, ignore the haters upthread.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Most of the interactions here in this discussion have actually been positive. I try to be selective in replying to negative remarks. I don't always get it right. But outright ignoring all of them doesn't seem like the best policy to me. For one thing, sometimes they bring up good points that legitimately need to be addressed, even if they aren't brought up in a very nice manner. I do my best to focus on replying constructively, though, granted, it can be hard to figure out where to draw that line and sometimes the framing of a remark makes it hard to reply without sounding defensive or something. For another, if I take a hard policy of "ignoring the haters," then someone not being "nice enough" has committed an unspeakable crime, so to speak. My experience suggests this creates more problems than it solves. It is a form of shunning and I don't really want to do that. It works better to be willing to talk to people who are engaging me about the issues, even if it isn't always sweetness and light. I continue to try to figure out how to do that in a way that furthers constructive discussion of the issues and without making it overly much about me, but sometimes that isn't obvious to other people. Sometimes people think I am upset and taking it personally when I'm not. I'm just trying to make a larger point and using this detail as an example to further that goal. I don't know a solution for that. Maybe, someday, I will have everything figured out. But today is not that day. For now, I will continue to muddle forward as best I can, however imperfectly. Have a great day.

No house and staying in Airbnb’s isn’t “homeless.”

by fipple 8y ago

No house and staying in Airbnb’s isn’t “homeless.”

s73v3r_ 8y ago

It's not secure housing, either.

ddingus 8y ago
Indeed, but the resource issues are very different. Very basics are still in play, and secure for periods of time. Plans can be made, changed. And the set of options is broader. Homelessness, coupled with, or rooted in poverty is a much more difficult thing than hopping from hotel to airbnb, etc... is. Not that I want to marginalize or judge this excellent thread, or anyone sharing. Not my intent. Just some clarity to improve relevancy.

patientplatypus 8y ago

You are objectively wrong. A homeless individual is defined in section 330(h)(5)(A) as “an individual who lacks housing (without regard to whether the individual is a member of a family), including an individual whose primary residence during the night is a supervised public or private facility (e.g., shelters) that provides temporary living accommodations, and an individual who is a resident in transitional housing.” A homeless person is an individual without permanent housing who may live on the streets; stay in a shelter, mission, single room occupancy facilities, abandoned building or vehicle; or in any other unstable or non-permanent situation. [Section 330 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C., 254b)] And even if you weren't you should show more kindness to those that experience hardship - because that's what good people do.

homeaway2 8y ago
In the US, different government departments define homelessness different ways [1]. How and why they came to do that would be a very interesting read. I had looked into this to see what it would take to legally check the "I'm homeless" box on the ACA exemption form, which I believe was under the HHS rule you posted. But that's different from what it would take to get housing assistance from HUD, and that's probably even different than how the average person would define "homeless". [1] https://www.nhchc.org/faq/official-definition-homelessness/ https://www.nhchc.org/faq/official-definition-homelessness/
yesenadam 8y ago
You rudely preach kindness, for some reason assume that HN and its users are entirely located somewhere in the USA, and seem to think what a word 'objectively' means is how it's defined in some US law.

newnewpdro 8y ago

Agreed. Homeless colloquially implies it's involuntary and they want but can't afford a more secure place to sleep. I've technically lived homelessly many times, often while employed, commuting from beautiful campgrounds w/showers in off-seasons or nice hotels. I know rich people who live entirely out of hotels and airbnb's who are technically homeless. There's a literal meaning to homeless and a figurative one, most people are using the latter.

opportune 8y ago

I think what differentiates hopping between airbnbs and being homeless is whether you have the financial means to live in more stable conditions. Living in Airbnb’s could mean you’re a luxury traveler spending $100k+ year on accommodation or it could mean you can only pay for shelter on a day to day basis (ie you hustle for cash every day, convert it to some electronic format, and pay rent on a daily basis). There’s also the case where you can afford a 1room Airbnb in an area but not rent, which I also wouldn’t call homelessness

DoreenMichele 8y ago

It fits some definitions of homelessness. You are, for example, considered to be homeless if you are couch surfing and have no permanent address or if you are doubled up illegally with family. This is often termed "hidden homeless." Rough sleeping is not the only situation that qualifies as homeless. A home is about more than a literal roof over your head.

gaius 8y ago
Michele I always upvote your posts, you are a solid contributor here, ignore the haters upthread.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Most of the interactions here in this discussion have actually been positive. I try to be selective in replying to negative remarks. I don't always get it right. But outright ignoring all of them doesn't seem like the best policy to me. For one thing, sometimes they bring up good points that legitimately need to be addressed, even if they aren't brought up in a very nice manner. I do my best to focus on replying constructively, though, granted, it can be hard to figure out where to draw that line and sometimes the framing of a remark makes it hard to reply without sounding defensive or something. For another, if I take a hard policy of "ignoring the haters," then someone not being "nice enough" has committed an unspeakable crime, so to speak. My experience suggests this creates more problems than it solves. It is a form of shunning and I don't really want to do that. It works better to be willing to talk to people who are engaging me about the issues, even if it isn't always sweetness and light. I continue to try to figure out how to do that in a way that furthers constructive discussion of the issues and without making it overly much about me, but sometimes that isn't obvious to other people. Sometimes people think I am upset and taking it personally when I'm not. I'm just trying to make a larger point and using this detail as an example to further that goal. I don't know a solution for that. Maybe, someday, I will have everything figured out. But today is not that day. For now, I will continue to muddle forward as best I can, however imperfectly. Have a great day.