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As the author discovered, reliable transportation and a permanent residence are often prerequisites for many office jobs. However, I do know that in Iowa there

by eric_b 8y ago

As the author discovered, reliable transportation and a permanent residence are often prerequisites for many office jobs. However, I do know that in Iowa there are many other kinds of jobs, lots of which would pay a wage sufficient to get back on one's feet, and have more lenient requirements. Perhaps the author needs to get any job vs. a programming job? Establishing a place to live, getting consistent income, and then going after the programming job would be a better idea perhaps? Sucks to take a step back, but sometimes that's the only way to go forward. I have a family member going through this same thing and struggling with similar issues. The author is right, it won't be easy to rise above the situation they find themselves in, but the key thing is to stop making bad decisions and take small but incremental steps to improve. Big bang "remote programming job" might not be in the cards. But farm laborer could be. Which may be a step in that direction.

Avshalom 8y ago
What do you mean by many jobs. Outside of standing outside of home depot I don't know many jobs that don't require a permanent address and a phone number and an email. Entry level employment is like 99% massive corporations that make no allowances for the realities of hard lives.
- blobbers 8y ago
  It sounds like he has a phone number and an email. He could get a mailbox at a fedex as a permanent address. This individual sounds more stubborn than your average person but also that he's had a tough life. Hope the world works out for him.
- ryanwaggoner 8y ago
  Entry level employment is like 99% massive corporations This seems unlikely, given that the majority of jobs in the US are provided by small businesses.
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    simile often involves hyperbole.
    - acheron 8y ago
      Turning “less than 50%” into “99%” is not hyperbole, it’s being incorrect.
      - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
        It’s also not even simile, since the “like” here signals lazy approximation, not comparison.
        loco5niner 8y ago
        Good point. It was an incorrect and lazy use of the word simile. It was an offhand remark that I thought felt right. I do stand by the use of 'hyperbole' though...
    - loco5niner 8y ago
      correction: exaggeration often involves hyperbole.
- eric_b 8y ago
  You sound pretty out of touch. In Iowa there is an enormous agriculture industry - an industry not known for asking a lot of personal questions about origin or current status. If you can show up and do the work (and maybe pass a drug test), you're hired. And often paid cash. Outside of agriculture, there are the usual suspects. Bars, restaurants, cleaning jobs, roofing, painting, other forms of low skill construction, landscaping/yard work, and with the unemployment rate so low, other jobs are becoming available as well. Many of these jobs have someone who drives, and a passenger or two to help with the work when they arrive. I know several folks who do not have licenses due to DUIs, and they are gainfully employed without owning a car, in places where cars are almost a necessity. I never said it would be easy - but it certainly is doable.
  - RobertRoberts 8y ago
    I was homeless for a while and I can confirm, if you want a job, you will get one. Period. Employers are permanently desperate for good help. I know felons with difficult histories that find work, if they can then anyone can.
  - komali2 8y ago
    The implication is that the majority of homeless are just lazy, yea? Just pick apples! I've been exactly there. You're not making minimum wage when you show up to the farm to pick apricots all day. Bars - need a bartender license. Yes, you do, nobody is risking it in 2018. Restaurants, sure, but again, you're not making minimum wage, and if you whiff of hobo you're not working front of house and getting tips. Cleaning jobs are usually cornered by some immigrant class . If you're an immigrant and have friends/family with the hookup or maybe can speak their language, congrats, you're in (not making minimum wage). If not, move on. Roofing - you need to bring your own tools. Speaking from experience. Also, this isn't just a "show up and do it job," the shysters that manage to sell shit crews to homeowners never last long, so you'll have to get on with a crew that know what they're doing, and they're not going to want to bring someone on that wants to just do it long enough to "get their feet under them" and then bail. Decent pay, sure, but it's a "career." Painting - this means standing outside of home depot, just like OP said. Not minimum wage. Other forms of low skill construction - like what? It's not "low skill," the immigrants you see doing it get trained up by their cousins on the job, and once again, it's bring your own tools. Landscaping/yard work - market cornered by immigrants and highschoolers. Nobody wants a random hobo mowing their lawn. Maybe you can get on with an immigrant crew. Non-minimum wage. >unemployment rate so low Yea, because people are being paid like it's still 1991 (the 2009 raise was putting a finger into a ten meter diameter hole in a dam). This guy didn't have a family to support him. That's how the immigrants do it, in case anybody is wondering - they stay with families, get jobs due to families, and afford life here because they're all supporting eachother. Random hobo programmer dude is going to have a MUCH harder time scrabbling out of the hole. Yea, you can scrabble a life, but you're not building a ladder out of the hole for yourself. I'd argue, if you can program, the 3.75/hr you'd make for 3 months is meaningless if you can instead spend that 3 months homeless but then pull a programming job for even a month.
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chrisseaton 8y ago
> have more lenient requirements I guess those jobs have stricter requirements. If I turn up an hour late for my white-collar office job, nobody cares (not that I do that.) If someone turns up an hour late for their blue-collar warehouse job, they get fired.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
I was internet acquainted with a homeless guy who did this for a while. I asked him about it as research. Because of my medical situation, I'm really not suited to this kind of work. But even if I were, I would have absolutely no idea how to get started. I was fascinated by the fact that he knew how to find these unadvertised jobs in a community he had never been to before. Even after him describing it to me, I don't think I would have any hope of figuring it out. I imagine a lot of people whose experience is limited to formal job applications would have no idea how to start. Many would have no idea this is even a thing. I wish I knew the right thing to say or questions to ask or whatever to use this as some opportunity to gather resources for another angle of approach to write about. I don't. This is wholly alien to my experience. I think that's probably part of the problem in this country. Casual work connections of this sort used to be more common. Now, it's like only immigrants know how to do this. Most Americans don't. That's not laziness or whatever. More like a blind spot.
- eric_b 8y ago
  I agree it's a blind spot, but also a kind of arrogance and privilege. I know all about the unadvertised work world because I lived it for years. Many other Americans do too, but not the kind of people who frequent this forum. A gross generalization of course, but in my experience it is primarily naturalized white males, Hispanics of both genders (some immigrant some not), and African immigrants that are "fluent" in this part of our economy. A lot of folks would rather throw up their hands and give up than do most the work I'm talking about - which is too bad because I've seen a lot of success stories start with "casual" jobs. And, in the age of "bullshit jobs" which everyone loves to talk about - a lot of blue collar low-skill work is actually not bullshit. It's necessary and important work that needs to be done, and a lot of it can hardly be automated.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I guess I would love to hear more nuts and bolts information on how this gets done. And that's not what I'm hearing.
    - 8y ago
justaaron 8y ago
I disagree. 1) the author is a programmer. programming pays better than most jobs. 2) the vast majority of jobs will vet for the same "stability indicators" and may even be more of sticklers than the culturally lassez-faire tech industry, which introduced casual fridays to the world. 3) did I mention the superior remuneration for programming jobs versus stacking boxes at Amazon.com warehouses or UPS? I doubt that the author is "above" other work, as he mentioned doing yard work in exchange for housing at one friends place. This is a tech web site where many tech fiends read "news" items, such as this.
- gaius 8y ago
  the culturally lassez-faire tech industry, which introduced casual fridays to the world. Casual fridays were invented by stuffy British stockbrokers who wanted to escape quickly to their country pursuits for the weekend without having to change first. It long predates the tech industry.
  - shagie 8y ago
    While I can certainly see that as an origin story, Wikipedia puts it as an offshoot of Aloha Friday - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_Friday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_Friday / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_shirt#Aloha_Friday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_shirt#Aloha_Friday - in the 60s. My favorite origin story is one that mixes some truth with fantasy and a religious pantheon of the Casual Gods - https://everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Casual+Gods https://everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Casual+Gods
- shagie 8y ago
  Regarding those stability indicators... > Me: “First thing, is I am looking for a remote position just long enough to allow me to save for a vehicle.” Onboarding for many positions requires at least a month of time. If you're looking for just long enough to save up for a used car, that means that as soon as the on boarding is done, that person is going to leave. I'm certain that there are places that are just after long enough to save for a car, but that tends to be at the very low end of the skill set and competing with college students after beer money.

by eric_b 8y ago

Avshalom 8y ago

What do you mean by many jobs. Outside of standing outside of home depot I don't know many jobs that don't require a permanent address and a phone number and an email. Entry level employment is like 99% massive corporations that make no allowances for the realities of hard lives.

blobbers 8y ago
It sounds like he has a phone number and an email. He could get a mailbox at a fedex as a permanent address. This individual sounds more stubborn than your average person but also that he's had a tough life. Hope the world works out for him.
ryanwaggoner 8y ago
Entry level employment is like 99% massive corporations This seems unlikely, given that the majority of jobs in the US are provided by small businesses.
- loco5niner 8y ago
  simile often involves hyperbole.
  - acheron 8y ago
    Turning “less than 50%” into “99%” is not hyperbole, it’s being incorrect.
    - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
      It’s also not even simile, since the “like” here signals lazy approximation, not comparison.
      - loco5niner 8y ago
        Good point. It was an incorrect and lazy use of the word simile. It was an offhand remark that I thought felt right. I do stand by the use of 'hyperbole' though...
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    correction: exaggeration often involves hyperbole.
eric_b 8y ago
You sound pretty out of touch. In Iowa there is an enormous agriculture industry - an industry not known for asking a lot of personal questions about origin or current status. If you can show up and do the work (and maybe pass a drug test), you're hired. And often paid cash. Outside of agriculture, there are the usual suspects. Bars, restaurants, cleaning jobs, roofing, painting, other forms of low skill construction, landscaping/yard work, and with the unemployment rate so low, other jobs are becoming available as well. Many of these jobs have someone who drives, and a passenger or two to help with the work when they arrive. I know several folks who do not have licenses due to DUIs, and they are gainfully employed without owning a car, in places where cars are almost a necessity. I never said it would be easy - but it certainly is doable.
- RobertRoberts 8y ago
  I was homeless for a while and I can confirm, if you want a job, you will get one. Period. Employers are permanently desperate for good help. I know felons with difficult histories that find work, if they can then anyone can.
- komali2 8y ago
  The implication is that the majority of homeless are just lazy, yea? Just pick apples! I've been exactly there. You're not making minimum wage when you show up to the farm to pick apricots all day. Bars - need a bartender license. Yes, you do, nobody is risking it in 2018. Restaurants, sure, but again, you're not making minimum wage, and if you whiff of hobo you're not working front of house and getting tips. Cleaning jobs are usually cornered by some immigrant class . If you're an immigrant and have friends/family with the hookup or maybe can speak their language, congrats, you're in (not making minimum wage). If not, move on. Roofing - you need to bring your own tools. Speaking from experience. Also, this isn't just a "show up and do it job," the shysters that manage to sell shit crews to homeowners never last long, so you'll have to get on with a crew that know what they're doing, and they're not going to want to bring someone on that wants to just do it long enough to "get their feet under them" and then bail. Decent pay, sure, but it's a "career." Painting - this means standing outside of home depot, just like OP said. Not minimum wage. Other forms of low skill construction - like what? It's not "low skill," the immigrants you see doing it get trained up by their cousins on the job, and once again, it's bring your own tools. Landscaping/yard work - market cornered by immigrants and highschoolers. Nobody wants a random hobo mowing their lawn. Maybe you can get on with an immigrant crew. Non-minimum wage. >unemployment rate so low Yea, because people are being paid like it's still 1991 (the 2009 raise was putting a finger into a ten meter diameter hole in a dam). This guy didn't have a family to support him. That's how the immigrants do it, in case anybody is wondering - they stay with families, get jobs due to families, and afford life here because they're all supporting eachother. Random hobo programmer dude is going to have a MUCH harder time scrabbling out of the hole. Yea, you can scrabble a life, but you're not building a ladder out of the hole for yourself. I'd argue, if you can program, the 3.75/hr you'd make for 3 months is meaningless if you can instead spend that 3 months homeless but then pull a programming job for even a month.

deleted 8y ago

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deleted 8y ago
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chrisseaton 8y ago

> have more lenient requirements I guess those jobs have stricter requirements. If I turn up an hour late for my white-collar office job, nobody cares (not that I do that.) If someone turns up an hour late for their blue-collar warehouse job, they get fired.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

I was internet acquainted with a homeless guy who did this for a while. I asked him about it as research. Because of my medical situation, I'm really not suited to this kind of work. But even if I were, I would have absolutely no idea how to get started. I was fascinated by the fact that he knew how to find these unadvertised jobs in a community he had never been to before. Even after him describing it to me, I don't think I would have any hope of figuring it out. I imagine a lot of people whose experience is limited to formal job applications would have no idea how to start. Many would have no idea this is even a thing. I wish I knew the right thing to say or questions to ask or whatever to use this as some opportunity to gather resources for another angle of approach to write about. I don't. This is wholly alien to my experience. I think that's probably part of the problem in this country. Casual work connections of this sort used to be more common. Now, it's like only immigrants know how to do this. Most Americans don't. That's not laziness or whatever. More like a blind spot.

eric_b 8y ago
I agree it's a blind spot, but also a kind of arrogance and privilege. I know all about the unadvertised work world because I lived it for years. Many other Americans do too, but not the kind of people who frequent this forum. A gross generalization of course, but in my experience it is primarily naturalized white males, Hispanics of both genders (some immigrant some not), and African immigrants that are "fluent" in this part of our economy. A lot of folks would rather throw up their hands and give up than do most the work I'm talking about - which is too bad because I've seen a lot of success stories start with "casual" jobs. And, in the age of "bullshit jobs" which everyone loves to talk about - a lot of blue collar low-skill work is actually not bullshit. It's necessary and important work that needs to be done, and a lot of it can hardly be automated.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I guess I would love to hear more nuts and bolts information on how this gets done. And that's not what I'm hearing.
  - 8y ago

justaaron 8y ago

I disagree. 1) the author is a programmer. programming pays better than most jobs. 2) the vast majority of jobs will vet for the same "stability indicators" and may even be more of sticklers than the culturally lassez-faire tech industry, which introduced casual fridays to the world. 3) did I mention the superior remuneration for programming jobs versus stacking boxes at Amazon.com warehouses or UPS? I doubt that the author is "above" other work, as he mentioned doing yard work in exchange for housing at one friends place. This is a tech web site where many tech fiends read "news" items, such as this.

gaius 8y ago
the culturally lassez-faire tech industry, which introduced casual fridays to the world. Casual fridays were invented by stuffy British stockbrokers who wanted to escape quickly to their country pursuits for the weekend without having to change first. It long predates the tech industry.
- shagie 8y ago
  While I can certainly see that as an origin story, Wikipedia puts it as an offshoot of Aloha Friday - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_Friday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casual_Friday / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_shirt#Aloha_Friday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_shirt#Aloha_Friday - in the 60s. My favorite origin story is one that mixes some truth with fantasy and a religious pantheon of the Casual Gods - https://everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Casual+Gods https://everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Casual+Gods
shagie 8y ago
Regarding those stability indicators... > Me: “First thing, is I am looking for a remote position just long enough to allow me to save for a vehicle.” Onboarding for many positions requires at least a month of time. If you're looking for just long enough to save up for a used car, that means that as soon as the on boarding is done, that person is going to leave. I'm certain that there are places that are just after long enough to save for a car, but that tends to be at the very low end of the skill set and competing with college students after beer money.