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Tesla automotive does not have a 20% margin, it's much closer to 10%. In the '18-H letter they claimed 20% margins including ZEV/GHG credits and added back Serv

by seebee 8y ago

Tesla automotive does not have a 20% margin, it's much closer to 10%. In the '18-H letter they claimed 20% margins including ZEV/GHG credits and added back Services & Other (in all Tesla 10-Q's the Services & Other are subtracted). Tesla calculates gross margin by not only including the ZEV/GHG credits but by basing the margin on the retail price of the vehicle rather than the bulk invoice. Cost of stores and R&D expense are also omitted from the gross margin.

dmode 8y ago
Can you point to a source ? I am looking at Q2 statement and gross margin before ZEV is 20%. With ZEV it is 21%. It's on page 2 here http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/7235e525-db16-470c-8dce-9ecac0ad7712 http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/7235e525-db16-470c-8dce-9ec... Also, gross margin is literally margin after cost of goods. Doesn't include SG&A expense.
- seebee 8y ago
  >I am looking at Q2 statement and gross margin before ZEV is 20%. With ZEV it is 21%. The statement given is ex ZEV and stock based comp, not ex ZEV/GHG and Services/Other. ZEV/GHG accounted for ~2% of margin in the first half of 2018 while Services/Other accounted for a little over 5%. Check the 10-Qs. > Also, gross margin is literally margin after cost of goods. Doesn't include SG&A expense. Most OEMs use the delta between the retail price and the bulk invoice including cost of stores to calculate their margin.
  - dmode 8y ago
    Sorry, it took me a while to get back. Why would stock based comp be included in gross margin ? That is not part of Cost of Goods sold. That is reflected in net income. I have no idea what your last statement means. There is US Accounting definition of what gross margin is and it is Revenue - Cost of Goods. Other expenses such as compensation, stores, are part of operational expense and it included in net income. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_margin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_margin

by seebee 8y ago

dmode 8y ago

Can you point to a source ? I am looking at Q2 statement and gross margin before ZEV is 20%. With ZEV it is 21%. It's on page 2 here http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/7235e525-db16-470c-8dce-9ecac0ad7712 http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/7235e525-db16-470c-8dce-9ec... Also, gross margin is literally margin after cost of goods. Doesn't include SG&A expense.

seebee 8y ago
>I am looking at Q2 statement and gross margin before ZEV is 20%. With ZEV it is 21%. The statement given is ex ZEV and stock based comp, not ex ZEV/GHG and Services/Other. ZEV/GHG accounted for ~2% of margin in the first half of 2018 while Services/Other accounted for a little over 5%. Check the 10-Qs. > Also, gross margin is literally margin after cost of goods. Doesn't include SG&A expense. Most OEMs use the delta between the retail price and the bulk invoice including cost of stores to calculate their margin.
- dmode 8y ago
  Sorry, it took me a while to get back. Why would stock based comp be included in gross margin ? That is not part of Cost of Goods sold. That is reflected in net income. I have no idea what your last statement means. There is US Accounting definition of what gross margin is and it is Revenue - Cost of Goods. Other expenses such as compensation, stores, are part of operational expense and it included in net income. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_margin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_margin