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Can anyone explain the shortage of 14nm chips? This article simply mentions that most readers are aware of this fact and I am unable to find supporting articles
by DeepYogurt 8y ago
Can anyone explain the shortage of 14nm chips? This article simply mentions that most readers are aware of this fact and I am unable to find supporting articles.
- yuhong 8y agoIt is already hitting the news now. The 10nm delays don't help here.
- th0ma5 8y agohttps://www.tomshardware.com/news/14nm-processor-intel-shortage-9000-series,37746.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/14nm-processor-intel-short...
- tristanj 8y agohttps://www.tomshardware.com/news/14nm-processor-intel-shortage-9000-series,37746.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/14nm-processor-intel-short... Because Intel's 10nm process is delayed, their 14nm fab is overbooked leading to a chip shortage.
- dman 8y agoBut isnt the positive spin on that they are selling every chip they could make?
- agumonkey 8y agoit is as a first layer analysis, but it's a fault for such a large company not to have fallback buffers to avoid short supply
- hajile 8y agoNo. Two fabs output more chips than one fab. Intel has deals with other companies for both 10nm and 14nm production and some of those deals are undoubtedly based on Intel moving their own chips to 10nm. At capacity and unable to increase as expected means customers move to other companies that make compatible, competitive products. Once those companies move, they may not come back. This is quite a bad position to be in.
- dman 8y agoAre there other companies that are using Intel fabs with real volume?
- slededit 8y agoAltera pre-acquisition. But it wasn't working too well.
- Soundest 8y agoAltera is hilarious, they shit the bed with Stratix 10 - delayed by years and bet the house on Intel. Intel bought them and then totally shit the bed on what was meant to be the process shrunk version of Stratix 10. What a way to go...
- slededit 8y agoNot hilarious if you are stuck with ancient 7 series parts as the only cost effective option. They just recently graced us with a Spartan 7 that uses the same die as their artix parts with the gigabit transceivers not bonded out. How generous. We need competition in the FPGA space again.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y agoTheir original roadmap was to provide a low density, low cost Artix as a replacement for some of the Spartan price point and that never materialized. This latest dogbone is just to get around Vivado's lack of support for anything before 7-series and the age of the last ISE.
- dnautics 8y agoEricsson 5g, or so I hear
- kingosticks 8y ago
- jarym 8y agoSpin maybe... but they weren’t planning for the 10nm process CPUs to be delayed and they weren’t prepared for the increase in demand on the 14nm parts. Poor management decisions have collided here it would seem. Not the same as when a manufacturer says they’re making as many as possible and they’re selling out.
- cryptonector 8y agoIntel might not have been able to make alternative decisions anyways. Cost might have made them choose between 10nm sooner or more 14nm now, and not betting on 10nm could easily have cost them more. Hard to say without insider info.
- fpoling 8y agoWell, for the past 40 years Intel managed to deliver node shrinks mostly on time. Management got used to that and thought that 10nm troubles were temporary, not something that required new design like rumored 10/12nm hybrid replacing original 10nm plans.
- landryraccoon 8y agoThey have a competitor. If OEMs switch to AMD because they can’t get parts from Intel those sales could be gone forever.
- chasil 8y agoDon't you mean TSMC, followed by Global Foundaries?
- landryraccoon 8y agoI wasn't aware that HP and companies that manufactured servers and PCs purchased directly from the fabs. You can buy server class CPUs from AMD, can you get them direct from TSMC?
- chasil 8y agoAMD doesn't fab their own chips anymore. I understood that TSMC would be manufacturing the next round of AMD processors, since Global Foundaries didn't have 7nm ready.
- landryraccoon 8y agoWe're talking past each other. HP isn't going to switch from Intel to TSMC because HP doesn't design CPUs. They make servers. Their vendor is going to be AMD not TSMC or Global Foundaries. You're saying Global Foundaries has fabs that make AMD's chips but I'm looking at it from a business/marketing perspective not who's making the hardware. The customer never sees a "Global Foundaries" label on the CPU, it's going to say AMD or Intel on it.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- naasking 8y agoBut not every chip they projected or promised to make, so not so great really.
- martinpw 8y agoInteresting snippet in that article - anyone know more about these new power standards? Intel's recent 300-series chipset refresh found its new chipsets coming to market with the 14nm process, which is necessary to meet California's new power standards.
- wmf 8y agoProbably https://energycodeace.com/download/21326/file_path/fieldList/T20%20Computers.pdf https://energycodeace.com/download/21326/file_path/fieldList... which requires workstations and gaming PCs to implement Energy Efficient Ethernet and to use less than 10W in sleep mode. Maybe Intel's old chipset doesn't support EEE (although it seems like nobody uses the Intel NIC anyway).
- wyldfire 8y agoProbably due to poor yield.
- jagger27 8y agoWhat's amazing (to me anyway, as I learn more about the fab game) is how Zen could suffer the exact same defects per wafer as Intel and produce considerably more viable CPUs per wafer. The "Core Complex" or chiplet architecture was such a brilliant longterm play by AMD—it still blows my mind.
- dragontamer 8y agoThe difference is closer than you'd imagine. Intel's XCC die is 694mm^2 for a 28-core, while Zen / Zeppelin is 213mm^2 for an 8-core. Intel's XCC 28 core is around 25mm^2 per core, while AMD's Zen is 26.6mm^2 per core... suggesting a slight advantage to Intel! Furthermore: Intel's XCC die has 28-cores. When defects come into XCC, Intel can simply disable those cores and sell them for cheaper. For example, Intel's Xeon Platinum 8160 is a 24-core. Presumably, 4-cores are defective but Intel can still sell it for $5000 or so. So a defective product would require a manufacturing defect somewhere critical. But individual cores can most certainly be disabled during the manufacturing process and sold as a lower tier product, like the Xeon Platinum 8160 As such, Intel definitely has good yields, at least on 14nm production. ------------ The main advantage is that AMD's strategy works way better when yields are poor due to a new process being not fully understood. But as defect rates drop, Intel's monolithic strategy seems to have slight advantages over AMD's. (Remember: Intel's cores are slightly superior in IPC, have slightly faster caches, and AVX512 enabled). AMD's strategy is definitely good, but I don't think Intel is really that far behind.
- MrRadar 8y agoIn addition to the benefits of getting working more working chips per wafer, don't chiplets also provide the benefit of being able to independently bin each chiplet, significantly increasing the effective production yield of high-clocking high core count chips relative to monolithic fabrication?
- ksec 8y agoThey have their first taste of 70M unit per quarter 14nm self fabbed Modem for the next iPhone cycle. They were suppose to have 10nm online which should leave room for those 14nm orders. Since 10nm are delayed, Intel had to move some of their 14nm chipset back to 22nm. as well as limiting supply to some segment of 14nm chips. And I wouldn't be surprised more customer are looking at EPYC anyway, every microcode update from Intel has resulted in % of performance lost, at this rate we will be back to Broadwell era soon.
- DeepYogurt 8y agoInteresting. I would not have thought that competing contracts would have been an issue (and I guess intel didn't either). Many thanks for the insight.
- Gibbon1 8y agoI can't say anything about Intel and 14nm, but there is a big shortage of all electronic components since 18 months ago. Microcontrollers are all backlogged, chip capacitors are also backlogged. PCB Fabs are backlogged, assembly houses at least in the US are at capacity. What I suspect is demand for electronic 'things' by poor people in China, India, and Africa are outstripping supply chains across the board.