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I just love the apple response mail to the guy who disclosed this to them: "We have forwarded your feedback to the appropriate team. Someone from that team wil

I just love the apple response mail to the guy who disclosed this to them: "We have forwarded your feedback to the appropriate team. Someone from that team will investigate and follow up as needed with the developer. Because we can only share communications about an app with its developer, you will not receive updates about this matter." It's the perfect email, they can do whatever they want, and they have an excuse why they don't need to account for it - they could let the app do whatever it want, demand it to change it's behavior or throw it out, but the one who spent considerable time researching this would never know.

pkaye 8y ago
That is why people need to use the court of public opinion in such matters.
- vkou 8y ago
  The court of public opinion is fickle, loves to conduct witch hunts, is easily swayed by lies, and is mostly just a reflection of the biases of the participants.
  - fredsir 8y ago
    What court isn't? Even a single real judge is biased, and will judge the same case differently according to what time of the day it is, or if their favorite sports-team is on a winning or losing strike[1]. The power of the court of public opinion is, that everything (hopefully) gets revealed instead of being confined to the opinion of a few select. [1]: This is mentioned in Hello World by Hannah Fry[2] [2]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38212157-hello-world https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38212157-hello-world
cabaalis 8y ago
I can't get the video links in the tweet [1] to open? Unless I fat-fingered all 3 of them. Either the guy doesn't want to be accused of not following proper disclosure procedures, or he was somehow asked to remove them? [1] https://twitter.com/privacyis1st/status/1038103142460743681 https://twitter.com/privacyis1st/status/1038103142460743681
- eridius 8y ago
  Are you typing uppercase-I or lowercase-L? I just typed in the first URL and it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVEI-BaSVU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVEI-BaSVU8
greglindahl 8y ago
They could have sent you an email that says nothing, is that preferable about one that communicates what they're really going to do?
- function_seven 8y ago
  That they could act in an even worse manner doesn't make the policy any better. Nice that they gave Privacy 1st a "receipt". Would be better if they had some conclusion to provide.
  - greglindahl 8y ago
    I can think of lots of ways that the policy could be better, but that's not the point I was bringing up... I was pointing out that this sort of complaint is why most corporations say basically nothing in these kinds of emails.
    - function_seven 8y ago
      Ahh, fair enough. I get what you're saying. A non-existent reply can't be analyzed at all, whereas their limited acknowledgement is a "thing" that can be criticized. Basically, why even bother to give critics an artifact to coalesce their criticism around? At least Apple is being upfront with their policy, instead of ghosting on the reporting party.
lemoncucumber 8y ago
Apple's lack of transparency is one of my biggest problems with them. I refuse to ever file bugs with them since I know I won't get any meaningful updates. Similarly, I often report problems on Google Maps since they actually send email updates about your report and tell you when it's fixed, whereas I never do with Apple Maps since they don't provide any feedback.
- pfschell 8y ago
  Apple Maps provides exactly the same feedback on user corrections. Try it out.
  - svarrall 8y ago
    Indeed, I’m impressed the speed in which Apple maps updates happen and they send notifications when they have made an update based on your feedback.
  - lemoncucumber 8y ago
    Nice, they must have added that since launch. I tried providing feedback years ago when it was still new and the feedback seemed to go into a black hole.
  - dwaite 8y ago
    I started providing more feedback on poor routing, incorrect entrances, etc. precisely because I got feedback my effort was working.
- eridius 8y ago
  > I refuse to ever file bugs with them since I know I won't get any meaningful updates. Having your bug get fixed is perhaps the most meaningful update possible, and that's the one you'll never get if you don't file bugs. I get your pain, I really do. I've filed many hundreds of bug reports with Apple. And many of those never got updates, or (more often) got a single update telling me it's a duplicate. It sucks to spend a bunch of time compiling a bug report only to be told that it's a duplicate. But many of the bugs actually got real feedback, and many of them got fixed. Sure, if I hadn't filed those bugs, maybe someone else would, so some of those would have gotten fixed anyway, but maybe not as fast, and a bunch of them probably wouldn't have been fixed at all simply because most people don't get around to filing bug reports.

pkaye 8y ago

That is why people need to use the court of public opinion in such matters.

vkou 8y ago
The court of public opinion is fickle, loves to conduct witch hunts, is easily swayed by lies, and is mostly just a reflection of the biases of the participants.
- fredsir 8y ago
  What court isn't? Even a single real judge is biased, and will judge the same case differently according to what time of the day it is, or if their favorite sports-team is on a winning or losing strike[1]. The power of the court of public opinion is, that everything (hopefully) gets revealed instead of being confined to the opinion of a few select. [1]: This is mentioned in Hello World by Hannah Fry[2] [2]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38212157-hello-world https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38212157-hello-world

cabaalis 8y ago

I can't get the video links in the tweet [1] to open? Unless I fat-fingered all 3 of them. Either the guy doesn't want to be accused of not following proper disclosure procedures, or he was somehow asked to remove them? [1] https://twitter.com/privacyis1st/status/1038103142460743681 https://twitter.com/privacyis1st/status/1038103142460743681

eridius 8y ago
Are you typing uppercase-I or lowercase-L? I just typed in the first URL and it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVEI-BaSVU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVEI-BaSVU8

greglindahl 8y ago

They could have sent you an email that says nothing, is that preferable about one that communicates what they're really going to do?

function_seven 8y ago
That they could act in an even worse manner doesn't make the policy any better. Nice that they gave Privacy 1st a "receipt". Would be better if they had some conclusion to provide.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  I can think of lots of ways that the policy could be better, but that's not the point I was bringing up... I was pointing out that this sort of complaint is why most corporations say basically nothing in these kinds of emails.
  - function_seven 8y ago
    Ahh, fair enough. I get what you're saying. A non-existent reply can't be analyzed at all, whereas their limited acknowledgement is a "thing" that can be criticized. Basically, why even bother to give critics an artifact to coalesce their criticism around? At least Apple is being upfront with their policy, instead of ghosting on the reporting party.

lemoncucumber 8y ago

Apple's lack of transparency is one of my biggest problems with them. I refuse to ever file bugs with them since I know I won't get any meaningful updates. Similarly, I often report problems on Google Maps since they actually send email updates about your report and tell you when it's fixed, whereas I never do with Apple Maps since they don't provide any feedback.

pfschell 8y ago
Apple Maps provides exactly the same feedback on user corrections. Try it out.
- svarrall 8y ago
  Indeed, I’m impressed the speed in which Apple maps updates happen and they send notifications when they have made an update based on your feedback.
- lemoncucumber 8y ago
  Nice, they must have added that since launch. I tried providing feedback years ago when it was still new and the feedback seemed to go into a black hole.
- dwaite 8y ago
  I started providing more feedback on poor routing, incorrect entrances, etc. precisely because I got feedback my effort was working.
eridius 8y ago
> I refuse to ever file bugs with them since I know I won't get any meaningful updates. Having your bug get fixed is perhaps the most meaningful update possible, and that's the one you'll never get if you don't file bugs. I get your pain, I really do. I've filed many hundreds of bug reports with Apple. And many of those never got updates, or (more often) got a single update telling me it's a duplicate. It sucks to spend a bunch of time compiling a bug report only to be told that it's a duplicate. But many of the bugs actually got real feedback, and many of them got fixed. Sure, if I hadn't filed those bugs, maybe someone else would, so some of those would have gotten fixed anyway, but maybe not as fast, and a bunch of them probably wouldn't have been fixed at all simply because most people don't get around to filing bug reports.