8 ms·

"Engineers Suck at Negotiating, so Don’t Negotiate, Be Fair - from me, after being pissed off about hiring practices I experienced from bad founders." God yes.

"Engineers Suck at Negotiating, so Don’t Negotiate, Be Fair - from me, after being pissed off about hiring practices I experienced from bad founders." God yes. This should just be basic employer-employee decency. Don't fuck around with people's lives just because you might save a buck. ESPECIALLY when you're getting much more from them (Which is just how employment goes).

lsc 16y ago
yeah, and he sounds like he has a really interesting way of dealing with it. Now, people might disagree on what level you happen to be at technically... but still it seems like you are saving an incredible amount of time and effort by moving the decision to simply "how good are they" and then making the money decision after that solves a whole lot of problems.
- rdrimmie 16y ago
  It creates a great path for employees to follow as well. You know exactly what you need to demonstrate to make it to the next level. Steve McConnell (or more accurately, I suppose, Construx) with the Professional Development Ladder (http://construx.com/Page.aspx?nid=244 http://construx.com/Page.aspx?nid=244) was an early advocate for this idea, and Spolsky has discussed it a couple of times as well. Cash has limited motivational power, but it's akin to the physiological layer on the hierarchy of needs. If you're getting a shitty salary it's harder to give a damn about the success of the product or company. That being said, also brilliant is the idea mentioned to let people exchange one or more tiers of compensation for stock if they so chose.
harscoat 16y ago
That's one of the points that stroke me most. I was at a company where two guys same level of competence could have up to 20%! difference in package because one knew how to negotiate and the other one did not (=was "nice&cool" imo, "naive/a bit immature" in their opinion). The company was very secretive about compensations (you always had the impression they knew stuff that you should also have known, too bad you did not know!). When I discovered about that (I was remote), my guts really hated this aspect of the company culture, but then I thought ok maybe I have no idea of what real hard ("winners") business is. I am so glad this post makes me go back to my 1st impression once for all. Be hard & clear, but fair.
- Dylanlacey 16y ago
  My contract actually bans me from discussing compensation. I was trying to come up with a single, reasonable explanation for doing so, and I couldn't. It basically enshrines the idea of employees not being treated fairly. If you can't discuss your pay, you can't know you're getting gypped.

lsc 16y ago

yeah, and he sounds like he has a really interesting way of dealing with it. Now, people might disagree on what level you happen to be at technically... but still it seems like you are saving an incredible amount of time and effort by moving the decision to simply "how good are they" and then making the money decision after that solves a whole lot of problems.

rdrimmie 16y ago
It creates a great path for employees to follow as well. You know exactly what you need to demonstrate to make it to the next level. Steve McConnell (or more accurately, I suppose, Construx) with the Professional Development Ladder (http://construx.com/Page.aspx?nid=244 http://construx.com/Page.aspx?nid=244) was an early advocate for this idea, and Spolsky has discussed it a couple of times as well. Cash has limited motivational power, but it's akin to the physiological layer on the hierarchy of needs. If you're getting a shitty salary it's harder to give a damn about the success of the product or company. That being said, also brilliant is the idea mentioned to let people exchange one or more tiers of compensation for stock if they so chose.

harscoat 16y ago

That's one of the points that stroke me most. I was at a company where two guys same level of competence could have up to 20%! difference in package because one knew how to negotiate and the other one did not (=was "nice&cool" imo, "naive/a bit immature" in their opinion). The company was very secretive about compensations (you always had the impression they knew stuff that you should also have known, too bad you did not know!). When I discovered about that (I was remote), my guts really hated this aspect of the company culture, but then I thought ok maybe I have no idea of what real hard ("winners") business is. I am so glad this post makes me go back to my 1st impression once for all. Be hard & clear, but fair.

Dylanlacey 16y ago
My contract actually bans me from discussing compensation. I was trying to come up with a single, reasonable explanation for doing so, and I couldn't. It basically enshrines the idea of employees not being treated fairly. If you can't discuss your pay, you can't know you're getting gypped.