5 ms·

These are not anarchists. Just a bunch of bully.

by afsina 8y ago

fnatreq 8y ago
No true Scotsman, true? If they act like anarchists and smell like anarchists, they are anarchists. They also proudly use the squatting symbol: https://twitter.com/besetzenberlin https://twitter.com/besetzenberlin
- Xylakant 8y ago
  The occupiers are not anarchists. It's a diverse group of people that carry the protests, some even with ties to the established political parties. Some of them certainly have ties with anarchist movements, but placing them all in the same bucket is willfully ignoring the diversity. While I'm not certain that the methods they are using will help their cause or whether the problem is actually even solvable, I understand their grievance: The area around the new google campus used to be one of the cheapest in Berlin, partly because it was a triangle that jutted out from West Berlin into the eastern parts and a large chunk of it was close to the wall. That area was marked for redevelopment and intended to be torn down pretty much from the beginning until the 60ies when a large grassroot movement started occupying the buildings and refurbishing them. Parts of the original plans can be witnessed in the area around the Kottbuser Tor, which is a prime example of failed grand city architecture plans. All the concrete blocks their replaced existing buildings which were torn down. The area became attractive after the 1990ies, because all of a sudden, the whole chunk of land was quite central in Berlin. As a consequence, many people that had been living there for decades and sometimes were quite involved in the improvement of the area are now forced to move and there's a fear that Google moving into the building will accelerate the process. To add on top of that, the building was recently sold to a holding that resides in one of the British tax havens, so all earnings go offshore and do little to benefit the area around. Google hasn't exactly been very forthcoming in its communication regarding their plans for the space, which makes an already complicated and heated issue even more heated.
  - fnatreq 8y ago
    Their "problem" can be solved through voting. But nobody cares about it, so they should accept it and "fuck off", as they themselves say.
    - Xylakant 8y ago
      No, their problem cannot easily be solved by voting. Quite a few people care about the issue, but the issue is problematic as it's about balancing the common good versus private ownership. It's a nontrivial problem and it's one of the major political and civic issues that are currently on the table in Berlin (and other large german cities)
      - enitihas 8y ago
        So should complicated and problematic issues for which consensus is difficult be solved by brute force?
        Xylakant 8y ago
        have I anywhere said anything to that extend?
    - hesk 8y ago
      How will voting help when property rights are concerned? Are you advocating for eminent domain? FYI, rising rents are a hotly debated topic in Berlin, and have been for years. Sadly, the previous government was asleep at the wheel in the last decade with regard to housing. The current government is a center-left three-party coalition. The department responsible for urban development is led by a politician from the Left party. Her previous undersecretary (Andrej Holm) had somewhat radical views with regards to urban housing but was forced out by what I consider a smear campaign soon after the government was formed.
  - kaycebasques 8y ago
    Thanks for the local perspective.
- afsina 8y ago
  Ok, so called anarcho communists to be exact. Still, bunch of bullies.
- mrep 8y ago
  On a somewhat related note, google translate has gotten mind openly good. I read the translated text from that twitter account as if it was written in perfect english.
growlist 8y ago
On a positive note, Uganda sounds lovely: 'Uganda is a landlocked country in East Africa whose diverse landscape encompasses the snow-capped Rwenzori Mountains and immense Lake Victoria. Its abundant wildlife includes chimpanzees as well as rare birds. Remote Bwindi Impenetrable National Park is a renowned mountain gorilla sanctuary. Murchison Falls National Park in the northwest is known for its 43m-tall waterfall and wildlife such as hippos.'
- wgerard 8y ago
  The scenery is simultaneously beautiful and heartbreaking: Idi Amin's ghost is still very much around. I knew very little about Amin until visiting and every third conversation ended up involving him somehow. You can still go see the caves where he kept prisoners, some of whom wrote messages in blood on the walls that are still visible. It really is a lovely country that's been through horrible situation after horrible situation (and obviously still has troubles today). Would definitely recommend visiting, with some obvious caveats.
  - beat 8y ago
    I once had a co-worker (in IT) from Uganda. I was having lunch with her and another co-worker, sort of a generic American conservative. He said something ignorant about working harder or something with regards to Africa, she just went off on him. She asked him if he'd ever had to step over the bodies of his neighbors as a child. Of course, she went on to get a western education and move to the US, but she never forgot how lucky she was.
    - wgerard 8y ago
      Yeah, it was quite a reality check to hear our host talk very nonchalantly about how Amin took his father away and had him killed - it was just so common that men of his age had their fathers murdered by Amin, that it didn't even seem to register to him as unusual (of course, that's just my interpretation). Definitely put my own problems in perspective.
      - 8y ago

These are not anarchists. Just a bunch of bully.

by afsina 8y ago

These are not anarchists. Just a bunch of bully.

No true Scotsman, true? If they act like anarchists and smell like anarchists, they are anarchists. They also proudly use the squatting symbol: https://twitter.com/besetzenberlin https://twitter.com/besetzenberlin

Xylakant 8y ago
The occupiers are not anarchists. It's a diverse group of people that carry the protests, some even with ties to the established political parties. Some of them certainly have ties with anarchist movements, but placing them all in the same bucket is willfully ignoring the diversity. While I'm not certain that the methods they are using will help their cause or whether the problem is actually even solvable, I understand their grievance: The area around the new google campus used to be one of the cheapest in Berlin, partly because it was a triangle that jutted out from West Berlin into the eastern parts and a large chunk of it was close to the wall. That area was marked for redevelopment and intended to be torn down pretty much from the beginning until the 60ies when a large grassroot movement started occupying the buildings and refurbishing them. Parts of the original plans can be witnessed in the area around the Kottbuser Tor, which is a prime example of failed grand city architecture plans. All the concrete blocks their replaced existing buildings which were torn down. The area became attractive after the 1990ies, because all of a sudden, the whole chunk of land was quite central in Berlin. As a consequence, many people that had been living there for decades and sometimes were quite involved in the improvement of the area are now forced to move and there's a fear that Google moving into the building will accelerate the process. To add on top of that, the building was recently sold to a holding that resides in one of the British tax havens, so all earnings go offshore and do little to benefit the area around. Google hasn't exactly been very forthcoming in its communication regarding their plans for the space, which makes an already complicated and heated issue even more heated.
- fnatreq 8y ago
  Their "problem" can be solved through voting. But nobody cares about it, so they should accept it and "fuck off", as they themselves say.
  - Xylakant 8y ago
    No, their problem cannot easily be solved by voting. Quite a few people care about the issue, but the issue is problematic as it's about balancing the common good versus private ownership. It's a nontrivial problem and it's one of the major political and civic issues that are currently on the table in Berlin (and other large german cities)
    - enitihas 8y ago
      So should complicated and problematic issues for which consensus is difficult be solved by brute force?
      - Xylakant 8y ago
        have I anywhere said anything to that extend?
  - hesk 8y ago
    How will voting help when property rights are concerned? Are you advocating for eminent domain? FYI, rising rents are a hotly debated topic in Berlin, and have been for years. Sadly, the previous government was asleep at the wheel in the last decade with regard to housing. The current government is a center-left three-party coalition. The department responsible for urban development is led by a politician from the Left party. Her previous undersecretary (Andrej Holm) had somewhat radical views with regards to urban housing but was forced out by what I consider a smear campaign soon after the government was formed.
- kaycebasques 8y ago
  Thanks for the local perspective.
afsina 8y ago
Ok, so called anarcho communists to be exact. Still, bunch of bullies.
mrep 8y ago
On a somewhat related note, google translate has gotten mind openly good. I read the translated text from that twitter account as if it was written in perfect english.

growlist 8y ago

On a positive note, Uganda sounds lovely: 'Uganda is a landlocked country in East Africa whose diverse landscape encompasses the snow-capped Rwenzori Mountains and immense Lake Victoria. Its abundant wildlife includes chimpanzees as well as rare birds. Remote Bwindi Impenetrable National Park is a renowned mountain gorilla sanctuary. Murchison Falls National Park in the northwest is known for its 43m-tall waterfall and wildlife such as hippos.'

wgerard 8y ago
The scenery is simultaneously beautiful and heartbreaking: Idi Amin's ghost is still very much around. I knew very little about Amin until visiting and every third conversation ended up involving him somehow. You can still go see the caves where he kept prisoners, some of whom wrote messages in blood on the walls that are still visible. It really is a lovely country that's been through horrible situation after horrible situation (and obviously still has troubles today). Would definitely recommend visiting, with some obvious caveats.
- beat 8y ago
  I once had a co-worker (in IT) from Uganda. I was having lunch with her and another co-worker, sort of a generic American conservative. He said something ignorant about working harder or something with regards to Africa, she just went off on him. She asked him if he'd ever had to step over the bodies of his neighbors as a child. Of course, she went on to get a western education and move to the US, but she never forgot how lucky she was.
  - wgerard 8y ago
    Yeah, it was quite a reality check to hear our host talk very nonchalantly about how Amin took his father away and had him killed - it was just so common that men of his age had their fathers murdered by Amin, that it didn't even seem to register to him as unusual (of course, that's just my interpretation). Definitely put my own problems in perspective.
    - 8y ago