10 ms·

Two Years Ago, India Lacked Fast, Cheap Internet – One Billionaire Changed That

186 points by brkumar 8y ago

neonate 8y ago
http://archive.is/Q4HrI http://archive.is/Q4HrI
- frereubu 8y ago
  I'm getting a Cloudflare error message from that link.
  - ryanlol 8y ago
    This is because you’re using cloudflare DNS. Archive.is/fo/li blocks cloudflare DNS.
    - 666lumberjack 8y ago
      Do you know why that is?
      - msravi 8y ago
        Apparently because archive.is wants cloudflare to pass on (most of) your IP address to them for DNS resolution, and cloudflare won't play ball... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17743154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17743154
atomicnumber1 8y ago
THIS. For mere $6 I can have 1.5GB of data everyday for 84 days. Not to mention unlimited calls and 100 messages/day. Edit: Also, they have free services like Cinema, TV, Music, Cloud, etc all included with that $6 plan.
- vuln 8y ago
  It's not 'free' it's being subsidized by someone somewhere.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tzs 8y ago
    Almost everything that is "free" is actually subsidized, so there would be no point in even having the word "free" if subsidization disqualified things from being "free".
sgr 8y ago
I'm on Jio and paying $5 for 84 days. I get 1. Free voice calls 2. 100 SMS/ day 3. 1.5GB High speed data/ day (20+ MBPS)- Post which unlimited @ 64 Kbps 4. Subscription to Jio apps like Music/ Movies/ News The page shows pricing at $5.7, everyone I know has always received a discount voucher for Rs 50. https://www.jio.com/en-in/4g-plans https://www.jio.com/en-in/4g-plans
- pnenp 8y ago
  Had to re-read to see 1.5 GB per day. Wow. I used to think we had it good in Austria (10GB for €10 per month). But that is fantastic.
  - puranjay 8y ago
    You can get a 5GB/day plan for INR 799 (~$11) per month. That's more data than most will use in a single day. That's not all - you also get free access to Jio's music service, movie library, streaming TV, and cloud storage.
    - kamaal 8y ago
      >>That's more data than most will use in a single day. Not to take away anything from your point. But I see plenty of cab drivers watch movies, youtube and use other services like Google maps. But there are other inspiring stories. A few months back I saw a video of street flute seller who learned to play the flute through the internet. Here is one story of a Coolie who prepared for civil services exams using internet: https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/080518/kerala-coolie-uses-free-railway-wifi-to-prepare-for-civil-services.html https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/08051... You will see plenty of stories where people are using internet to do something of value.
      - dingaling 8y ago
        In the UK I have do all that on a a VDSL connection capped to 120GB per month and at four times the price.
cooper12 8y ago
What a crap title and article, which spends half its time bootlicking Mukesh Ambani and how he's so rich, when the second paragraph says: > has shelled out $35 billion of the company’s money I'm also tired of all these publications that brainlessly give credit for achievements to the CEO like those that suck Elon Musk off for things his engineers have done. Not that I should expect anything better than a journal named after Wall Street.
- seunosewa 8y ago
  It really doesn’t bother me because he is the chairman, managing director and largest shareholder of the company in question. Leaders get credit for the things they ask their followers to do all the time. No one can actually accomplish anything significant without lots of help from other people.
  - lihaciudaniel 8y ago
    Everyone wants to be boss and take decision but nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions, that's why we have middle managers. To be fair the CEO/Entrepreneur is the one who brings the startup and ideas to life that's why he is the most talked about.
- dang 8y ago
  Perhaps you have a valid point in there, but it's not ok to fulminate like this on HN, so can you please not? I feel like we asked you this many times before and then you fixed it, so it would be good not to backslide. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - r3bl 8y ago
    Out of topic, out of curiosity: Is one person behind this profile? Do multiple people share the login info? During my years of HN usage, I don't remember ever seeing another username enforcing the rules, only yours.
carlsborg 8y ago
From Steve Blank's recent blog post: [today’s theory is that] “massive capital infusion owns the entire market." This is yet another example. Question is: What strategies can competitors adopt when faced with a market participant like this?
- sgr 8y ago
  The Indian telecom industry had another major shock back in 2009, when a new firm - DoCoMo - introduced a 'Per-second' billing. Today, Tata DoCoMo barely exists. Some competitors introduced a similar version of billing, others just waited them out. https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/cover-story/biggest-indian-innovation---tata-docomo/story/205825.html https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/cover-story/biggest-in...
  - IntelMiner 8y ago
    Is DoCoMo still big in Japan? They've got an interesting history with various projects there. They were originally the ones who hosted the "mobile" side for Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal in Japan. Connecting a Gameboy Color to a cellular phone and having it make HTTP-type requests to Nintendo servers for data, way back in 1999 or so
    - tokyoHacker 8y ago
      NTT - DoCoMo is one of the major providers here in Japan. The others being AU and Softbank. Having said that there are lots of new entrants who offer cheaper rates than the incumbents. They ride on the signal of the major players. I guess its kind of win-win for all. But the rates I pay is close to $10/GB. Unlimited rate for those who are ready to pay $50 or more per month ( not sure about the current rates. Could be a bit outdated)
puranjay 8y ago
Jio's dominance has also forced broadband providers to up their game. Airtel used to dominate in my part of the city, offering mediocre speeds and expensive plans. About 1.5 years ago, my broadband bill was about $30 at 16mbps capped at 80GB/month from Airtel. Now Airtel is offering me 100mbps at ~$13 capped at 250GB/month
- sgr 8y ago
  +1 I'm paying $15/ month for 100mbps with FUP at 750GB/ month https://www.actcorp.in/personal/fibernet/plans/hyderabad https://www.actcorp.in/personal/fibernet/plans/hyderabad
  - puranjay 8y ago
    I recently switched to a local internet provider. INR 850/month (~$12) for 50mbps with no download limit. Internet in India has suddenly become really good. Made my work so much easier
codegeek 8y ago
As a US Citizen of Indian origin, I can confirm this. For the past couple of years, whenever I travel to India, I don't even feel a difference in terms of Internet access. JIO specially has been a game changer. Indian telecommunication system is one of the best in the world and I would argue it beats mature markets like USA with its size and coverage for 1.2 billion people. Long way to go with many other basic necessities but when it comes to Internet/Telecom, I am super impressed.
philipps 8y ago
This highlights how far the US is lagging behind in terms of Internet access and cost. Paying 60$/month or more for mediocre speeds is common even in major urban areas, due to the lack of competition. I live in the heart of Boston and only have one ISP I can buy service from. And there is no mobile alternative that offers (truly) unlimited, fast, and affordable data.
- tuxguy 8y ago
  My gut says Google is eyeing an isp play . That would be a godsend for consumers, although dont know if telecom regulators like the FCC and anti monopoly regulators a would clear such a proposal.
Investopad 8y ago
India is quite well known for its price sensitive consumers. Jio has recognized and tackled that exceptionally well. Only today, on its 2nd anniversary, it announced even more free offers for its subscribers. Full article here: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/telecom/telecom-news/reliance-jio-has-a-surprise-for-you-on-its-2nd-anniversary/articleshow/65718799.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/telecom/teleco...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
piyush_soni 8y ago
Yes, he is the game changer when it comes to bringing fast and cheap internet in India (along with unlimited calls, data, 'national roaming' etc.). Unlike some countries like US, national roaming wasn't really free in India until Jio happened. So much that it forced every other telecom company in India to have similar plans (at least close to that) even if that meant huge downfall in their profit. Such is the power of Mukesh Ambani. But, if someone is thinking the reason behind it is his philanthropy or something, forget about it. He's the biggest businessman in India, and just wants to capture all the market and all of its 'data'. Ambani wants his company to become India's Google. That being said, thanks to him, literally (almost) everyone in India is on the internet these days.
- Investopad 8y ago
  Hi Piyush. Great points but would like to say that not even half of India has access to internet just yet. While Jio is certainly expediting this growth, we have a long way to go. You can find my reference here: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/number-indian-internet-users-will-reach-500-million-by-june-2018-iamai-says/articleshow/62998642.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/...
  - kamaal 8y ago
    One reason could be lack of very cheap Smartphones. I mean like good sub 1000 rupees phones. India has a great Android phone ecosystem and the sub 10,000 rupee phones are really good. But 10,000 rupees is still quite a bit of cash for many people.
    - piyush_soni 8y ago
      In my personal experience, poor population actually doesn't care about 'smartphone', though they care about 'Whatsapp'. Thankfully, Jio is bringing around 2000 INR (~28 USD) feature phones too, that will still run Whatsapp and Facebook etc.
  - codegeek 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ganarajpr 8y ago
About 5 months or so ago, one of my cousins called me ( video call on whatsapp ) from one of the snow covered mountains in the himalayan range. I know its not the top of mount everest and the place does see a decent tourist traffic, but still I was surprised by the fact that he could do a clear video call from that location. THIS, compared to me, sitting on a train ( not underground! ) just 10 miles away from London and no internet ( or network ) feels very very strange. That is when I really understood how gamechanging Jio is to India. There is nothing even closely comparable to it anywhere in UK atleast and I believe the same is true for most developed countries.
- r_singh 8y ago
  This reminds me of how a friend from SF texted me saying he missed 4G speeds in India. I genuinely thought he was being sarcastic at first. Another thing hard to ignore is the cost disparity between data in India and the developed nations; data in India is cheaper by at least a few times.
- rebyn 8y ago
  Have to disagree. Viettel (Vietnam) does offer 1GB a day for a monthly cost of $7. I have 3 bars minimum with LTE/4G on mountains (remote ones even) and islands.
peter303 8y ago
The Arnold Carnegie of India. Mr Carnegie funded hundreds of public libraries around the USA in the 1800s. He was a rags to riches 19th century steel billionaire in modern valuations.I have read dozens of testimonials of how small town middle class children use their libraries to enter ivy league universities and onto fantastic careers. I am one of these people.
- markdown 8y ago
  Andrew Carnegie :)
- eaenki 8y ago
  Andrew Carnegie would be worth US$372 billion in 2014 dollar. Yes, with a B.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  How Carnegie acquired that money is a different story. Look up the Robber Barons.
kisslaay 8y ago
Jio is huge in India. Jio is specifically targeting rural areas. Areas which would have taken years for internet cable to reach. They have strong presence by maintaining cellular signal, Jio shops etc in these areas. Maybe that is the reason why India leads in number of people who first accessed Facebook on mobile.
davchana 8y ago
In 2016 I used to pay Rs 98 for a GB OF data. Now Airtel, after following the lead of Jio, or getting forced to, offers 1.4GB data every day for Rs 300 for 70 days
athirnuaimi 8y ago
When vodafone bought Hutch a few years back (so they could enter the Indian market), I saw an interview with the Vodafone ceo. He made a interesting comment. He said one of the things that would come from the deal is Hutch would should Vodafone how to offer services so cheaply. At the time the average monthly spend per subscriber in india was about $2. A fraction of what it was in the UK. So India was always ahead of the developed world in terms of pricing. But Jiro has definitely taking it to another level by offering crazy amounts of data with accompanying fast speeds for a price many Indians can afford.
pankajdoharey 8y ago
Well that billionaire raised a loan of $14 Billion from the Indian Banks to start Jio and recently he again raised additional $500 Million, such huge investments rarely recover if at all. Previous 5 quarters are showing a loss.
- kamaal 8y ago
  Jio was never profitable from start. It won't be profitable anytime soon either. Please note this isn't first time Mukesh Ambani is dipping his feet into telecommunications. He did before too, but he lost that business to Anil Ambani. Apparently Jio is like his dream project.
  - sbmthakur 8y ago
    > Jio was never profitable from start. It won't be profitable anytime soon either. I don't get this. Jio has been posting profits for a while[1]. 1. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/reliance-jio-infocomm-posts-third-straight-quarterly-profit/articleshow/65172420.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/rel...
    - kamaal 8y ago
      Its profit if you completely discount away the debt they have :) Or if you think they started at 0 investment. Or if you thinking on lines of completely discounting their initial capital 'investment' by not calling it Debt. It is debt nevertheless. Its like say took like a crore to start a business, and you are making like a profit of 50000 a month. Its profit, but it isn't exactly profit in an absolute sense, given you have to pay back 1 cr. The thing about companies like Reliance is they can afford to do this. They have debt of $37 billion(https://telecom.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/cash-rich-reliance-looks-to-raise-3-billion-as-13-billion-debt-matures/64542402 https://telecom.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/cash-rich-...) and they want to raise another $3 billion. So yes, they post profits. Based on what your definition of profit is.
- rohan1024 8y ago
suhastech 8y ago
However, there are downsides to this. To compete with Jio. All the carriers have massively decreased the prices to match Jio. This has increased congestion in all metro areas. Things don't work when I most need it. I cannot book an Uber in the middle of the city. The uber drivers struggle to get the navigation right. I sometimes hear "All channels occupied" error when I'm calling. I never knew such an error existed. I had tried Jio in the initial days. The coverage was spotty at best. No one I know use Jio as a primary connection. Most people use a dual SIM phone, which I don't have. Even if the access of internet has increased, the overall quality of cell service has decreased at lot, no matter what the carrier. Edit: Bypass the paywall - http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-years-ago-india-lacked-fast-cheap-internetone-billionaire-changed-all-that-1536159916 http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/two...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- rohan1024 8y ago
  This is true for cities but the speed is mostly better than any other provider. Besides people have broadband in cities so most of the time its not the issue. If you go through towns of India the speed is very high on this network like around 20+ Mbps.
- fnatreq 8y ago
  That's the sad truth about unlimited plans. You can't beat physics. Sadly most people don't understand this and think ISPs are being greedy.
  - drb91 8y ago
    People aren’t the ones claiming the plan is unlimited, whatever that means. Are the ISPs confused?
- iamgopal 8y ago
  That caused increase in non synchronous communication such as WhatsApp.
denzil_correa 8y ago
> Reliance has said little publicly about Jio, and even less about the potential for wide-scale data mining in a country where consumers have not, to date, made a big deal about online privacy. But top executives are clear on the opportunity. > “It’s called Deep Packet Inspection, and what you can do with the analytics of that is mind-boggling,” said a senior Reliance executive, referring to a practice that digs into ‘packets’ of data created by computers for efficiency, mining them for information. https://in.reuters.com/article/reliance-telecoms-jio-idINKCN11611V https://in.reuters.com/article/reliance-telecoms-jio-idINKCN...
- acd10j 8y ago
  This is why it very important to have HTTPS everywhere.
ggm 8y ago
This is the worlds largest IPv6 network. We've been tracking it for APNIC since day one. It took India to over 40% of the worlds visible IPv6 users.
giis 8y ago
Interestingly, Jio needs 4G supported phone and it won't work with 3G handset. So other (ex: airtel,vodafone etc) telecom operators still keep higher prices for 3G handset! 3g Data Mobile Recharge Plans: Rs. 298 - 28 days - 1 GB 3G Data. Thats $5 for 1GB of data with 28 day validity. But If you look at their 4G data plan it will be completely different thanks to Jio.
HipstaJules 8y ago
Italy here: I'm paying 10€ per unlimited calls and 60gb/months. Looks like we are cheaper than India!
- waivek 8y ago
  That's not cheaper. Jio can give that at half the price for thrice the duration
madengr 8y ago
Once upon a time, the USA had fast, cheap Internet. One billionaire changed that.
ramshanker 8y ago
Everyone is comparing Data Price in India to that of west/south. Considering it's so much cheaper in India, It's an irony that Indian's egress charges are 200% of the USA egress charges. [1] Ex: CloudFront egress for India: $0.170/GB.[Jio gives to user : $0.044/GB under ideal daily max consumption]. CloudFront egress for USA: $0.085/GB .... This is HALF of Indian rates. https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/pricing/ https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/pricing/
- ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
  CloudFront isn't exactly the cheapest CDN. BunnyCDN is .01/US for their premium and half that for their volume service. India would only be .03/US (granted with only one datacenter in the South).
acd10j 8y ago
We should be very thankful with current Net Neutrality situation in India thanks to Facebook's ill conceived plan of Free Basics which led to Strict Net Neutrality Laws in India. This had prevented Platform lock for Jio's chat , movies etc platforms, which ironically is very beneficial to FB Messenger and Whatspp's growth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_India
fenk85 8y ago
Ireland EUR70 first year (100 after) * 1000/100mbit fiber to home (live 20 miles outside small 3rd rate city, in middle of rural Ireland) * Unlimited calls and texts (Ireland and UK) for home phone, and 20GB/month 4G data for bundled mobile sim (got phone separately previously) * i didnt bother with tv bundled into this, freesat is free ,have netflix etc separately
lnkmails 8y ago
I live in USA but I am of Indian origin. My parents' apartment in India now has Fiber Internet with 80Mbps at 1000INR (15USD)/month. On my recent travel (Aug 2018), I had Jio and was working remotely. It is so cheap to get Jio. I had 0 issues and I was praising the Internet situation in India for the first time in the last decade. Seriously, good changes in Internet situation. The top challenges for me right now to move back there are 1. Rampant corruption in state government offices (especially with land registrations, legal heir certificates) 2. Extreme levels of sanitation/drainage issues even in metros 3. Personal indiscipline of the people. There is now some transparency because of digital transformation/e-governance. I think in a decade, (1) and (2) will be addressed. It will take miracles to fix (3). Jio pretty much stepped up the competition and other providers are fighting hard to give good speeds. I am happy about indirect benefits of technology.
- iamshs 8y ago
  Jio has enabled a digital revolution, just like Reliance Infocomm did by making all incoming calls free back in 2005 I think. Jio has also made sure that my youtube homepage is filled with soft porn. It is an absolute scourge. WhatsApp rumour mongering has increased a lot with lynchings happening based on the fact that law and order can’t keep up pace with technology. I also see that lots of unemployed people now are just engrossed in WhatsApp videos nearly all day. It should have made job searching easier, but wages are depressed to such a degree that people just lose all hope and find solace in the mindless videos. Indirect consequences of the technology too.
  - pkhagah 8y ago
    Can you back up that lynching/WhatsApp with some numbers or statistics? Riots used to happen left and right in India for before 90's. A famous politician or actor died, a politician resigned or doing protest, religious demonstrations etc. Lot of the city will be closed. This situation got a lot better after economic liberalization and what followed. Is there a reversal to this trend that you are talking about? https://twitter.com/ShamikaRavi/status/1034116009794392066 https://twitter.com/ShamikaRavi/status/1034116009794392066
sseth 8y ago
What is fascinating is that many Indians are discovering the mobile internet having never been on a desktop, or having never even had a land line. We are talking of 100s of millions of people here. Nearly 80% of internet access in India is via mobile. It would be fascinating to see how their behaviour differs from those who have come to the internet via the normal route. Besides the rates etc, what Jio has been able to do also is leapfrog straightaway to a pure LTE network, with no GSM at all, with VoLTE. Other providers have to maintain a legacy GSM network and also support LTE. They have gone from 0 to 215 million subscribers in just 2 years, which is incredible. A lot of people have mentioned that Mukesh Ambani is doing this the second time - even the first launch had a major impact. At that time India had incredible high cellular rates, and the launch of Reliance Communications in early 2000s really changed the game for mobile connectivity in India. So this is the second time he has upset the apple cart.
tuxguy 8y ago
The average quota is 1.5GB/day (for the latest recharge, they provided 3gb/day). That's a lot ! Some side effects of Jio have been : 1. average media consumption per user, specifically video(youtube, netflix, amazon prime) has gone up drastically 2. voip calls(audio & video calls on whatsapp, telegram) have gone up drastically ! 3. A lot of users, especially youngsters i know, dont download content anymore, they stream it ! Its an interesting usage behaviour shift ! I think Jio's end game is content - getting Indian users to pay for content will be tricky though !(there have been very few successes - unlike the us, the average indian user doesnt like paying for digital subscription content , paid tech news and analysis site, https://the-ken.com/ https://the-ken.com/ is an exception)
- iamgopal 8y ago
  The real intention is to earn by selling data centre bandwidth to internet applications provider such as Google and Facebook when India government make it compulsory for them to have indian user data inside Indian border, this is the direction where both Jio and government are slowly moving, if you read recent news on indian news sites and read between the line.
Proven 8y ago
You'd think only Net Neutrality would be able to fix that
tuxguy 8y ago
why is this article behind a wsj paywall ?
- tim333 8y ago
  try this bookmarklet javascript:window.location="https://m.facebook.com/l.php?u="+encodeURIComponent(window.location.href);
  - tuxguy 8y ago
    thanks a ton ! this is so neat !
wtmt 8y ago
I'm not a fan of Jio for multiple reasons. Firstly, it used to insist on Aadhaar (the resident ID linked with biometrics) to provide a connection. I'm not sure if that has changed in the recent times and if it accepts other documents. Secondly, as someone else pointed out here, Jio is an unsustainable model. While the prices charged by other telecoms/ISPs could go down a bit, what Jio is doing is creating a bloodbath where everyone sinks, including Jio. Jio already has huge debts. I don't think that bodes well for consumers, and would negatively affect how much things can improve in the coming years. This could result in a deep and long stagnation once all companies have no money and have huge debts. After all, telecom is a capital intensive business, combined with the operational expenses that are more specific to the Indian scenario (and not applicable in some developed economies) — like a competitor cutting the cables of another provider in a area and creating a mass outage, roads being dug without warning or planning to lay cables and not repaired later (sometimes resulting in fines to the company), etc. Lastly, Jio is from Reliance, a big conglomerate that has a reputation of being unethical in many ways. [1] This may be considered as being compensated by some of the good that has been done by the company, but it still cannot be completely ignored. The 2007 Hindi movie "Guru" [2] is a fictionalized depiction of the beginnings of Reliance and about Dhirubhai Ambani (the founder). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliance_Industries#Scams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliance_Industries#Scams [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_(2007_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_(2007_film)
pvelagal 8y ago
The impact of Jio is enormous. I travelled to certain villages where there are no roads.. there are not even proper bus facilities but inside the “huts” folks have 4G internet and wifi hot spots and i streamed netflix. I couldn’t believe myself.
worldexplorer 8y ago
Still there is no cheap and fast wired broadband in some areas of major cities in India. We tried multiple ISP from our area(one of the major city in India) and they all are bad. Sometimes our wifi does not work for multiple days or its too slow. Finally we decided to use only Jio mobile internet.We face the same issue at our office. I hope Jio fiber change this situation.

186 points by brkumar 8y ago

neonate 8y ago

http://archive.is/Q4HrI http://archive.is/Q4HrI

frereubu 8y ago
I'm getting a Cloudflare error message from that link.
- ryanlol 8y ago
  This is because you’re using cloudflare DNS. Archive.is/fo/li blocks cloudflare DNS.
  - 666lumberjack 8y ago
    Do you know why that is?
    - msravi 8y ago
      Apparently because archive.is wants cloudflare to pass on (most of) your IP address to them for DNS resolution, and cloudflare won't play ball... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17743154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17743154

atomicnumber1 8y ago

THIS. For mere $6 I can have 1.5GB of data everyday for 84 days. Not to mention unlimited calls and 100 messages/day. Edit: Also, they have free services like Cinema, TV, Music, Cloud, etc all included with that $6 plan.

vuln 8y ago
It's not 'free' it's being subsidized by someone somewhere.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tzs 8y ago
  Almost everything that is "free" is actually subsidized, so there would be no point in even having the word "free" if subsidization disqualified things from being "free".

sgr 8y ago

I'm on Jio and paying $5 for 84 days. I get 1. Free voice calls 2. 100 SMS/ day 3. 1.5GB High speed data/ day (20+ MBPS)- Post which unlimited @ 64 Kbps 4. Subscription to Jio apps like Music/ Movies/ News The page shows pricing at $5.7, everyone I know has always received a discount voucher for Rs 50. https://www.jio.com/en-in/4g-plans https://www.jio.com/en-in/4g-plans

pnenp 8y ago
Had to re-read to see 1.5 GB per day. Wow. I used to think we had it good in Austria (10GB for €10 per month). But that is fantastic.
- puranjay 8y ago
  You can get a 5GB/day plan for INR 799 (~$11) per month. That's more data than most will use in a single day. That's not all - you also get free access to Jio's music service, movie library, streaming TV, and cloud storage.
  - kamaal 8y ago
    >>That's more data than most will use in a single day. Not to take away anything from your point. But I see plenty of cab drivers watch movies, youtube and use other services like Google maps. But there are other inspiring stories. A few months back I saw a video of street flute seller who learned to play the flute through the internet. Here is one story of a Coolie who prepared for civil services exams using internet: https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/080518/kerala-coolie-uses-free-railway-wifi-to-prepare-for-civil-services.html https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/08051... You will see plenty of stories where people are using internet to do something of value.
    - dingaling 8y ago
      In the UK I have do all that on a a VDSL connection capped to 120GB per month and at four times the price.

cooper12 8y ago

What a crap title and article, which spends half its time bootlicking Mukesh Ambani and how he's so rich, when the second paragraph says: > has shelled out $35 billion of the company’s money I'm also tired of all these publications that brainlessly give credit for achievements to the CEO like those that suck Elon Musk off for things his engineers have done. Not that I should expect anything better than a journal named after Wall Street.

seunosewa 8y ago
It really doesn’t bother me because he is the chairman, managing director and largest shareholder of the company in question. Leaders get credit for the things they ask their followers to do all the time. No one can actually accomplish anything significant without lots of help from other people.
- lihaciudaniel 8y ago
  Everyone wants to be boss and take decision but nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions, that's why we have middle managers. To be fair the CEO/Entrepreneur is the one who brings the startup and ideas to life that's why he is the most talked about.
dang 8y ago
Perhaps you have a valid point in there, but it's not ok to fulminate like this on HN, so can you please not? I feel like we asked you this many times before and then you fixed it, so it would be good not to backslide. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- r3bl 8y ago
  Out of topic, out of curiosity: Is one person behind this profile? Do multiple people share the login info? During my years of HN usage, I don't remember ever seeing another username enforcing the rules, only yours.

carlsborg 8y ago

From Steve Blank's recent blog post: [today’s theory is that] “massive capital infusion owns the entire market." This is yet another example. Question is: What strategies can competitors adopt when faced with a market participant like this?

sgr 8y ago
The Indian telecom industry had another major shock back in 2009, when a new firm - DoCoMo - introduced a 'Per-second' billing. Today, Tata DoCoMo barely exists. Some competitors introduced a similar version of billing, others just waited them out. https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/cover-story/biggest-indian-innovation---tata-docomo/story/205825.html https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/cover-story/biggest-in...
- IntelMiner 8y ago
  Is DoCoMo still big in Japan? They've got an interesting history with various projects there. They were originally the ones who hosted the "mobile" side for Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal in Japan. Connecting a Gameboy Color to a cellular phone and having it make HTTP-type requests to Nintendo servers for data, way back in 1999 or so
  - tokyoHacker 8y ago
    NTT - DoCoMo is one of the major providers here in Japan. The others being AU and Softbank. Having said that there are lots of new entrants who offer cheaper rates than the incumbents. They ride on the signal of the major players. I guess its kind of win-win for all. But the rates I pay is close to $10/GB. Unlimited rate for those who are ready to pay $50 or more per month ( not sure about the current rates. Could be a bit outdated)

puranjay 8y ago

Jio's dominance has also forced broadband providers to up their game. Airtel used to dominate in my part of the city, offering mediocre speeds and expensive plans. About 1.5 years ago, my broadband bill was about $30 at 16mbps capped at 80GB/month from Airtel. Now Airtel is offering me 100mbps at ~$13 capped at 250GB/month

sgr 8y ago
+1 I'm paying $15/ month for 100mbps with FUP at 750GB/ month https://www.actcorp.in/personal/fibernet/plans/hyderabad https://www.actcorp.in/personal/fibernet/plans/hyderabad
- puranjay 8y ago
  I recently switched to a local internet provider. INR 850/month (~$12) for 50mbps with no download limit. Internet in India has suddenly become really good. Made my work so much easier

codegeek 8y ago

As a US Citizen of Indian origin, I can confirm this. For the past couple of years, whenever I travel to India, I don't even feel a difference in terms of Internet access. JIO specially has been a game changer. Indian telecommunication system is one of the best in the world and I would argue it beats mature markets like USA with its size and coverage for 1.2 billion people. Long way to go with many other basic necessities but when it comes to Internet/Telecom, I am super impressed.

philipps 8y ago

This highlights how far the US is lagging behind in terms of Internet access and cost. Paying 60$/month or more for mediocre speeds is common even in major urban areas, due to the lack of competition. I live in the heart of Boston and only have one ISP I can buy service from. And there is no mobile alternative that offers (truly) unlimited, fast, and affordable data.

tuxguy 8y ago
My gut says Google is eyeing an isp play . That would be a godsend for consumers, although dont know if telecom regulators like the FCC and anti monopoly regulators a would clear such a proposal.

Investopad 8y ago

India is quite well known for its price sensitive consumers. Jio has recognized and tackled that exceptionally well. Only today, on its 2nd anniversary, it announced even more free offers for its subscribers. Full article here: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/telecom/telecom-news/reliance-jio-has-a-surprise-for-you-on-its-2nd-anniversary/articleshow/65718799.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/telecom/teleco...

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piyush_soni 8y ago

Yes, he is the game changer when it comes to bringing fast and cheap internet in India (along with unlimited calls, data, 'national roaming' etc.). Unlike some countries like US, national roaming wasn't really free in India until Jio happened. So much that it forced every other telecom company in India to have similar plans (at least close to that) even if that meant huge downfall in their profit. Such is the power of Mukesh Ambani. But, if someone is thinking the reason behind it is his philanthropy or something, forget about it. He's the biggest businessman in India, and just wants to capture all the market and all of its 'data'. Ambani wants his company to become India's Google. That being said, thanks to him, literally (almost) everyone in India is on the internet these days.

Investopad 8y ago
Hi Piyush. Great points but would like to say that not even half of India has access to internet just yet. While Jio is certainly expediting this growth, we have a long way to go. You can find my reference here: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/number-indian-internet-users-will-reach-500-million-by-june-2018-iamai-says/articleshow/62998642.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/...
- kamaal 8y ago
  One reason could be lack of very cheap Smartphones. I mean like good sub 1000 rupees phones. India has a great Android phone ecosystem and the sub 10,000 rupee phones are really good. But 10,000 rupees is still quite a bit of cash for many people.
  - piyush_soni 8y ago
    In my personal experience, poor population actually doesn't care about 'smartphone', though they care about 'Whatsapp'. Thankfully, Jio is bringing around 2000 INR (~28 USD) feature phones too, that will still run Whatsapp and Facebook etc.
- codegeek 8y ago

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ganarajpr 8y ago

About 5 months or so ago, one of my cousins called me ( video call on whatsapp ) from one of the snow covered mountains in the himalayan range. I know its not the top of mount everest and the place does see a decent tourist traffic, but still I was surprised by the fact that he could do a clear video call from that location. THIS, compared to me, sitting on a train ( not underground! ) just 10 miles away from London and no internet ( or network ) feels very very strange. That is when I really understood how gamechanging Jio is to India. There is nothing even closely comparable to it anywhere in UK atleast and I believe the same is true for most developed countries.

r_singh 8y ago
This reminds me of how a friend from SF texted me saying he missed 4G speeds in India. I genuinely thought he was being sarcastic at first. Another thing hard to ignore is the cost disparity between data in India and the developed nations; data in India is cheaper by at least a few times.
rebyn 8y ago
Have to disagree. Viettel (Vietnam) does offer 1GB a day for a monthly cost of $7. I have 3 bars minimum with LTE/4G on mountains (remote ones even) and islands.

peter303 8y ago

The Arnold Carnegie of India. Mr Carnegie funded hundreds of public libraries around the USA in the 1800s. He was a rags to riches 19th century steel billionaire in modern valuations.I have read dozens of testimonials of how small town middle class children use their libraries to enter ivy league universities and onto fantastic careers. I am one of these people.

markdown 8y ago
Andrew Carnegie :)
eaenki 8y ago
Andrew Carnegie would be worth US$372 billion in 2014 dollar. Yes, with a B.
forapurpose 8y ago
How Carnegie acquired that money is a different story. Look up the Robber Barons.

kisslaay 8y ago

Jio is huge in India. Jio is specifically targeting rural areas. Areas which would have taken years for internet cable to reach. They have strong presence by maintaining cellular signal, Jio shops etc in these areas. Maybe that is the reason why India leads in number of people who first accessed Facebook on mobile.

davchana 8y ago

In 2016 I used to pay Rs 98 for a GB OF data. Now Airtel, after following the lead of Jio, or getting forced to, offers 1.4GB data every day for Rs 300 for 70 days

athirnuaimi 8y ago

When vodafone bought Hutch a few years back (so they could enter the Indian market), I saw an interview with the Vodafone ceo. He made a interesting comment. He said one of the things that would come from the deal is Hutch would should Vodafone how to offer services so cheaply. At the time the average monthly spend per subscriber in india was about $2. A fraction of what it was in the UK. So India was always ahead of the developed world in terms of pricing. But Jiro has definitely taking it to another level by offering crazy amounts of data with accompanying fast speeds for a price many Indians can afford.

pankajdoharey 8y ago

Well that billionaire raised a loan of $14 Billion from the Indian Banks to start Jio and recently he again raised additional $500 Million, such huge investments rarely recover if at all. Previous 5 quarters are showing a loss.

kamaal 8y ago
Jio was never profitable from start. It won't be profitable anytime soon either. Please note this isn't first time Mukesh Ambani is dipping his feet into telecommunications. He did before too, but he lost that business to Anil Ambani. Apparently Jio is like his dream project.
- sbmthakur 8y ago
  > Jio was never profitable from start. It won't be profitable anytime soon either. I don't get this. Jio has been posting profits for a while[1]. 1. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/reliance-jio-infocomm-posts-third-straight-quarterly-profit/articleshow/65172420.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/rel...
  - kamaal 8y ago
    Its profit if you completely discount away the debt they have :) Or if you think they started at 0 investment. Or if you thinking on lines of completely discounting their initial capital 'investment' by not calling it Debt. It is debt nevertheless. Its like say took like a crore to start a business, and you are making like a profit of 50000 a month. Its profit, but it isn't exactly profit in an absolute sense, given you have to pay back 1 cr. The thing about companies like Reliance is they can afford to do this. They have debt of $37 billion(https://telecom.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/cash-rich-reliance-looks-to-raise-3-billion-as-13-billion-debt-matures/64542402 https://telecom.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/cash-rich-...) and they want to raise another $3 billion. So yes, they post profits. Based on what your definition of profit is.
rohan1024 8y ago

suhastech 8y ago

However, there are downsides to this. To compete with Jio. All the carriers have massively decreased the prices to match Jio. This has increased congestion in all metro areas. Things don't work when I most need it. I cannot book an Uber in the middle of the city. The uber drivers struggle to get the navigation right. I sometimes hear "All channels occupied" error when I'm calling. I never knew such an error existed. I had tried Jio in the initial days. The coverage was spotty at best. No one I know use Jio as a primary connection. Most people use a dual SIM phone, which I don't have. Even if the access of internet has increased, the overall quality of cell service has decreased at lot, no matter what the carrier. Edit: Bypass the paywall - http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-years-ago-india-lacked-fast-cheap-internetone-billionaire-changed-all-that-1536159916 http://facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/two...

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rohan1024 8y ago
This is true for cities but the speed is mostly better than any other provider. Besides people have broadband in cities so most of the time its not the issue. If you go through towns of India the speed is very high on this network like around 20+ Mbps.
fnatreq 8y ago
That's the sad truth about unlimited plans. You can't beat physics. Sadly most people don't understand this and think ISPs are being greedy.
- drb91 8y ago
  People aren’t the ones claiming the plan is unlimited, whatever that means. Are the ISPs confused?
iamgopal 8y ago
That caused increase in non synchronous communication such as WhatsApp.

denzil_correa 8y ago

> Reliance has said little publicly about Jio, and even less about the potential for wide-scale data mining in a country where consumers have not, to date, made a big deal about online privacy. But top executives are clear on the opportunity. > “It’s called Deep Packet Inspection, and what you can do with the analytics of that is mind-boggling,” said a senior Reliance executive, referring to a practice that digs into ‘packets’ of data created by computers for efficiency, mining them for information. https://in.reuters.com/article/reliance-telecoms-jio-idINKCN11611V https://in.reuters.com/article/reliance-telecoms-jio-idINKCN...

acd10j 8y ago
This is why it very important to have HTTPS everywhere.

ggm 8y ago

This is the worlds largest IPv6 network. We've been tracking it for APNIC since day one. It took India to over 40% of the worlds visible IPv6 users.

giis 8y ago

Interestingly, Jio needs 4G supported phone and it won't work with 3G handset. So other (ex: airtel,vodafone etc) telecom operators still keep higher prices for 3G handset! 3g Data Mobile Recharge Plans: Rs. 298 - 28 days - 1 GB 3G Data. Thats $5 for 1GB of data with 28 day validity. But If you look at their 4G data plan it will be completely different thanks to Jio.

HipstaJules 8y ago

Italy here: I'm paying 10€ per unlimited calls and 60gb/months. Looks like we are cheaper than India!

waivek 8y ago
That's not cheaper. Jio can give that at half the price for thrice the duration

madengr 8y ago

Once upon a time, the USA had fast, cheap Internet. One billionaire changed that.

ramshanker 8y ago

Everyone is comparing Data Price in India to that of west/south. Considering it's so much cheaper in India, It's an irony that Indian's egress charges are 200% of the USA egress charges. [1] Ex: CloudFront egress for India: $0.170/GB.[Jio gives to user : $0.044/GB under ideal daily max consumption]. CloudFront egress for USA: $0.085/GB .... This is HALF of Indian rates. https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/pricing/ https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/pricing/

ApolloFortyNine 8y ago
CloudFront isn't exactly the cheapest CDN. BunnyCDN is .01/US for their premium and half that for their volume service. India would only be .03/US (granted with only one datacenter in the South).

acd10j 8y ago

We should be very thankful with current Net Neutrality situation in India thanks to Facebook's ill conceived plan of Free Basics which led to Strict Net Neutrality Laws in India. This had prevented Platform lock for Jio's chat , movies etc platforms, which ironically is very beneficial to FB Messenger and Whatspp's growth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality_in_India

fenk85 8y ago

Ireland EUR70 first year (100 after) * 1000/100mbit fiber to home (live 20 miles outside small 3rd rate city, in middle of rural Ireland) * Unlimited calls and texts (Ireland and UK) for home phone, and 20GB/month 4G data for bundled mobile sim (got phone separately previously) * i didnt bother with tv bundled into this, freesat is free ,have netflix etc separately

lnkmails 8y ago

I live in USA but I am of Indian origin. My parents' apartment in India now has Fiber Internet with 80Mbps at 1000INR (15USD)/month. On my recent travel (Aug 2018), I had Jio and was working remotely. It is so cheap to get Jio. I had 0 issues and I was praising the Internet situation in India for the first time in the last decade. Seriously, good changes in Internet situation. The top challenges for me right now to move back there are 1. Rampant corruption in state government offices (especially with land registrations, legal heir certificates) 2. Extreme levels of sanitation/drainage issues even in metros 3. Personal indiscipline of the people. There is now some transparency because of digital transformation/e-governance. I think in a decade, (1) and (2) will be addressed. It will take miracles to fix (3). Jio pretty much stepped up the competition and other providers are fighting hard to give good speeds. I am happy about indirect benefits of technology.

iamshs 8y ago
Jio has enabled a digital revolution, just like Reliance Infocomm did by making all incoming calls free back in 2005 I think. Jio has also made sure that my youtube homepage is filled with soft porn. It is an absolute scourge. WhatsApp rumour mongering has increased a lot with lynchings happening based on the fact that law and order can’t keep up pace with technology. I also see that lots of unemployed people now are just engrossed in WhatsApp videos nearly all day. It should have made job searching easier, but wages are depressed to such a degree that people just lose all hope and find solace in the mindless videos. Indirect consequences of the technology too.
- pkhagah 8y ago
  Can you back up that lynching/WhatsApp with some numbers or statistics? Riots used to happen left and right in India for before 90's. A famous politician or actor died, a politician resigned or doing protest, religious demonstrations etc. Lot of the city will be closed. This situation got a lot better after economic liberalization and what followed. Is there a reversal to this trend that you are talking about? https://twitter.com/ShamikaRavi/status/1034116009794392066 https://twitter.com/ShamikaRavi/status/1034116009794392066

sseth 8y ago

What is fascinating is that many Indians are discovering the mobile internet having never been on a desktop, or having never even had a land line. We are talking of 100s of millions of people here. Nearly 80% of internet access in India is via mobile. It would be fascinating to see how their behaviour differs from those who have come to the internet via the normal route. Besides the rates etc, what Jio has been able to do also is leapfrog straightaway to a pure LTE network, with no GSM at all, with VoLTE. Other providers have to maintain a legacy GSM network and also support LTE. They have gone from 0 to 215 million subscribers in just 2 years, which is incredible. A lot of people have mentioned that Mukesh Ambani is doing this the second time - even the first launch had a major impact. At that time India had incredible high cellular rates, and the launch of Reliance Communications in early 2000s really changed the game for mobile connectivity in India. So this is the second time he has upset the apple cart.

tuxguy 8y ago

The average quota is 1.5GB/day (for the latest recharge, they provided 3gb/day). That's a lot ! Some side effects of Jio have been : 1. average media consumption per user, specifically video(youtube, netflix, amazon prime) has gone up drastically 2. voip calls(audio & video calls on whatsapp, telegram) have gone up drastically ! 3. A lot of users, especially youngsters i know, dont download content anymore, they stream it ! Its an interesting usage behaviour shift ! I think Jio's end game is content - getting Indian users to pay for content will be tricky though !(there have been very few successes - unlike the us, the average indian user doesnt like paying for digital subscription content , paid tech news and analysis site, https://the-ken.com/ https://the-ken.com/ is an exception)

iamgopal 8y ago
The real intention is to earn by selling data centre bandwidth to internet applications provider such as Google and Facebook when India government make it compulsory for them to have indian user data inside Indian border, this is the direction where both Jio and government are slowly moving, if you read recent news on indian news sites and read between the line.

Proven 8y ago

You'd think only Net Neutrality would be able to fix that

tuxguy 8y ago

why is this article behind a wsj paywall ?

tim333 8y ago
try this bookmarklet javascript:window.location="https://m.facebook.com/l.php?u="+encodeURIComponent(window.location.href);
- tuxguy 8y ago
  thanks a ton ! this is so neat !

wtmt 8y ago

I'm not a fan of Jio for multiple reasons. Firstly, it used to insist on Aadhaar (the resident ID linked with biometrics) to provide a connection. I'm not sure if that has changed in the recent times and if it accepts other documents. Secondly, as someone else pointed out here, Jio is an unsustainable model. While the prices charged by other telecoms/ISPs could go down a bit, what Jio is doing is creating a bloodbath where everyone sinks, including Jio. Jio already has huge debts. I don't think that bodes well for consumers, and would negatively affect how much things can improve in the coming years. This could result in a deep and long stagnation once all companies have no money and have huge debts. After all, telecom is a capital intensive business, combined with the operational expenses that are more specific to the Indian scenario (and not applicable in some developed economies) — like a competitor cutting the cables of another provider in a area and creating a mass outage, roads being dug without warning or planning to lay cables and not repaired later (sometimes resulting in fines to the company), etc. Lastly, Jio is from Reliance, a big conglomerate that has a reputation of being unethical in many ways. [1] This may be considered as being compensated by some of the good that has been done by the company, but it still cannot be completely ignored. The 2007 Hindi movie "Guru" [2] is a fictionalized depiction of the beginnings of Reliance and about Dhirubhai Ambani (the founder). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliance_Industries#Scams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliance_Industries#Scams [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_(2007_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_(2007_film)

pvelagal 8y ago

The impact of Jio is enormous. I travelled to certain villages where there are no roads.. there are not even proper bus facilities but inside the “huts” folks have 4G internet and wifi hot spots and i streamed netflix. I couldn’t believe myself.

worldexplorer 8y ago

Still there is no cheap and fast wired broadband in some areas of major cities in India. We tried multiple ISP from our area(one of the major city in India) and they all are bad. Sometimes our wifi does not work for multiple days or its too slow. Finally we decided to use only Jio mobile internet.We face the same issue at our office. I hope Jio fiber change this situation.