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I'm from Belgium, and here kids learn this in high school (5th year). It's basic knowledge. So why does this show up on HN?

hackandtrip 8y ago
I'm from Italy and it's the same here, but the problem remains: it seems that a big part of population (devs are not excluded) have problems and hate relationship with math.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  Yep. In Finland, derivatives are discussed (in a superficial manner) in high school even if you take as little math as you can, but from what I’ve heard most people who don’t elect to take more in-depth courses don’t really grok what they’re about and promptly forget about them after the exam.
Regardsyjc 8y ago
I graduated college from the USA but with a liberal arts degree and the highest math I learned was precalc.
tinco 8y ago
Only kids who got into higher education tracks get calculus. No need to be smug about it, many kids don't get in those tracks for any reason and might find later in life that they are interested in calculus. I feel if anything the US education system exposes to more children than the European systems, even though I feel the system is misguided. In any case, I had calculus in highschool, then more of it in University and I still feel I could do with a fun refresher every now and then.
- toolslive 8y ago
  > I feel if anything the US education system exposes to more children than the European systems What do you mean?
  - tinco 8y ago
    Well, the way I understand the US system is that all children basically get the same education, and they are divided only by grades. In the NL and I think other European countries also, children go in separate highschool tracks depending on their performance in elementary school. A child that exhibits weakness in logic/maths/puzzle solving in the last year of elementary will likely be recommended to go into a vocational track and only ever receive basic maths education unless they opt in to a higher education track afterwards. In the NL often these tracks are even in separate schools, but always separate classes. So my sister went to a different highschool than I did because I was showing more proclivity towards scientific education. After her highschool if she wanted she still could've opted for a track that would qualify her for scientific education, but since she had a preference for arts she went to an arts academy instead.
    - toolslive 8y ago
      Yes, it's similar in Belgium. But, derivatives are really considered basic knowledge, so I doubt there's a track you can pick in Belgium that does not expose you to this. I will check. update: combining www.onderwijsdoelen.be and the distribution of students across the different tracks, 69% of the students are required to be exposed to this.
    - syntheticcdo 8y ago
      FWIW, your understanding is incorrect. While true that in US schools, all students are expected to complete a full 13 years of schooling (Kindergarten + 12 grades), students receive individualized courses of study. By high school, there may be 3-4 levels of instruction for Math ranging from remedial to college-bound, to college-level coursework. Additionally, non-college-bound students at most schools have the option of taking classes that prepare them for more traditional blue collar work (like automotive repair, etc) and often students have the option to go to a different school more aligned with their talents/skill level. The primary difference between US and European education is in the US taking particular courses of study is the decision of the student/parents and not of the state.
      - 8y ago
- crispyambulance 8y ago
  There are many paths that people take towards mathematical understanding, many paths have loops where material is covered over and over again at different levels of sophistication. I feel that typical pre-college curriculums cover topics superficially-- just enough for the exams. Many students would benefit so much more if they held-off on calculus until they became fluent in "the basics". Instead you get students practically forced to take calculus in high school whether they're ready or not and then they need to repeat the material in college-- sometimes STILL under-prepared. For college-bound, it would be much better to slow down, focus on rigor and mastery of algebra, geometry, practical applications, and proofs. Then in college start with something much deeper and more comprehensive than your typical "Calc 101"-- maybe at the level of Spivak's Calculus text or Rudin's.
allsunny 8y ago
I, for one, enjoy reading alternative explanations of difficult subjects. Calculus is not basic knowledge in my book. Ironically, my dad teaches high school calculus, in the US for whatever it's worth.

hackandtrip 8y ago

I'm from Italy and it's the same here, but the problem remains: it seems that a big part of population (devs are not excluded) have problems and hate relationship with math.

Sharlin 8y ago
Yep. In Finland, derivatives are discussed (in a superficial manner) in high school even if you take as little math as you can, but from what I’ve heard most people who don’t elect to take more in-depth courses don’t really grok what they’re about and promptly forget about them after the exam.

Regardsyjc 8y ago

I graduated college from the USA but with a liberal arts degree and the highest math I learned was precalc.

tinco 8y ago

Only kids who got into higher education tracks get calculus. No need to be smug about it, many kids don't get in those tracks for any reason and might find later in life that they are interested in calculus. I feel if anything the US education system exposes to more children than the European systems, even though I feel the system is misguided. In any case, I had calculus in highschool, then more of it in University and I still feel I could do with a fun refresher every now and then.

toolslive 8y ago
> I feel if anything the US education system exposes to more children than the European systems What do you mean?
- tinco 8y ago
  Well, the way I understand the US system is that all children basically get the same education, and they are divided only by grades. In the NL and I think other European countries also, children go in separate highschool tracks depending on their performance in elementary school. A child that exhibits weakness in logic/maths/puzzle solving in the last year of elementary will likely be recommended to go into a vocational track and only ever receive basic maths education unless they opt in to a higher education track afterwards. In the NL often these tracks are even in separate schools, but always separate classes. So my sister went to a different highschool than I did because I was showing more proclivity towards scientific education. After her highschool if she wanted she still could've opted for a track that would qualify her for scientific education, but since she had a preference for arts she went to an arts academy instead.
  - toolslive 8y ago
    Yes, it's similar in Belgium. But, derivatives are really considered basic knowledge, so I doubt there's a track you can pick in Belgium that does not expose you to this. I will check. update: combining www.onderwijsdoelen.be and the distribution of students across the different tracks, 69% of the students are required to be exposed to this.
  - syntheticcdo 8y ago
    FWIW, your understanding is incorrect. While true that in US schools, all students are expected to complete a full 13 years of schooling (Kindergarten + 12 grades), students receive individualized courses of study. By high school, there may be 3-4 levels of instruction for Math ranging from remedial to college-bound, to college-level coursework. Additionally, non-college-bound students at most schools have the option of taking classes that prepare them for more traditional blue collar work (like automotive repair, etc) and often students have the option to go to a different school more aligned with their talents/skill level. The primary difference between US and European education is in the US taking particular courses of study is the decision of the student/parents and not of the state.
    - 8y ago
crispyambulance 8y ago
There are many paths that people take towards mathematical understanding, many paths have loops where material is covered over and over again at different levels of sophistication. I feel that typical pre-college curriculums cover topics superficially-- just enough for the exams. Many students would benefit so much more if they held-off on calculus until they became fluent in "the basics". Instead you get students practically forced to take calculus in high school whether they're ready or not and then they need to repeat the material in college-- sometimes STILL under-prepared. For college-bound, it would be much better to slow down, focus on rigor and mastery of algebra, geometry, practical applications, and proofs. Then in college start with something much deeper and more comprehensive than your typical "Calc 101"-- maybe at the level of Spivak's Calculus text or Rudin's.

allsunny 8y ago

I, for one, enjoy reading alternative explanations of difficult subjects. Calculus is not basic knowledge in my book. Ironically, my dad teaches high school calculus, in the US for whatever it's worth.