8 ms·

The cult of WeWork

45 points by sytelus 8y ago

np_tedious 8y ago
I know a few people at the NYC office and have observed some of this, but I'm not sure if that muchworse than other "startups". My own (far smaller, about $500m / 400 people) employer certainly has a bit of groupthink itself. If the one correcting comment on the article > Pescatarian not Vegan. Wework still have dairy, eggs and fish allowed at their events. is true, I'm not sure how much i can trust the rest of it.
- rbinv 8y ago
  Should have gone pesca-pescatarian.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
Oh my, are these people going to have a "Well, that was embarrassing" moment later. Then: A big part of being a woman is to help men [like Adam] manifest their calling in life.” Aaaaaaaand nope.
- draw_down 8y ago
  Yeah, that was a real “yikes” moment for me too.
- Spivak 8y ago
  Reminds me of a quote from The Bell Jar which will probably make you just as uncomfortable as Esther. > "What a man is is an arrow into the future and what a woman is is the place the arrow shoots off from." There's no shame in wanting to play a support class but don't pressure others into it.
  - to_bpr 8y ago
    There's no shame in wanting to differ from the status quo maintained since time immemorial, but don't pressure others into it. Valid?
    - Spivak 8y ago
      I don't think so, at least not completely. The message should be to treat others as individuals and not impose societal expectations on others. Don't assume that the default or expected role for a woman is to be supporting and passive. And don't look down on a woman who still wants to assume that role.
- itronitron 8y ago
  a big part of being a cult member is to help the cult leader manifest their calling in life
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
I'm not surprised the property industry dislikes WeWork, WeWork's success is a reflection of how poorly that industry serves it's customers.
- CharlesDodgson 8y ago
  I think there is more than a grain of truth to this.
- rchaud 8y ago
  The "property industry" is doing just fine seeing as how they are the ones selling top-shelf commercial leases in bulk to WeWork. "Success" for these types of companies is similar to their tedious "we can change the world" mantra in that neither have any basis in reality. They have racked up a $723 million loss and are on the hook for $4b in new spending, and yet they are a 'decacorn'. They are propped up through investment capital alone. No wonder they have to roll out these absurd claims of expanding into education, daycare and town-building.
anon08142018 8y ago
Sounds like just a sampling bias. The kind of people with the time and desire to go to this festival are probably the kind of people to "drink the kool aid". They are also smart enough to know not to trash their company while being interviewed by a stranger. If I was at a company sponsored event I would of course praise our glorious corporation to some stranger, but its not like I actually believe the hype, I just like getting paid.
theriddlr 8y ago
The Gwyneth Paltrow of coworking.
- gdulli 8y ago
  When Paltrow was referenced in the article I was thinking, this is one of those touches that in fiction would stand out as too contrived or on the nose. I wonder if there will be a day when WeWork "consciously unincorporates."
CharlesDodgson 8y ago
Am I extremely out of the loop by just thinking that it's a hot desk company that rolls up all the expenses of the office adds 10%-25%, throws in some booze and lunches and says it's changing the world?
- alexpetralia 8y ago
  Actually yes - this perspective would discount the immense value of brand, design, narrative and belief. And before you think that that stuff is "not real", consider that the reason you do anything is because of some dominant narrative you may or may not have reflected on. Narratives are what get people build rockets and go to the moon, or build them and go to war instead.
  - Soundest 8y ago
    Whilst that's true, narratives at some point do have to meet reality. If rental prices drop by 10%, it doesn't matter what you believe, WeWork will be underwater.
    - hcknwscommenter 8y ago
      Wework is underwater. Have you seen their bond offerings? They will default.
  - smsm42 8y ago
    These things are definitely real. But while building a brand that elicits cult-like behavior from its followers is undoubtedly a huge marketing success, of which all other marketers should be justifiably envious, is it "changing the world"? The would has seen such efforts - both successful and not - since the first state and the first religion has been founded. > Narratives are what get people build rockets But is WeWork building rockets to go to the moon? Last noticeable thing I remember them doing is banning their workers from eating meat. Beyond that - yep, they rent out offices. So?
  - badcede 8y ago
    The moon thing was a cold war narrative.
scrumper 8y ago
I attended a similar industry event in 2006 called HedgeStock[1], for hedge funds and the various remora fish that feed off them. It was a very strange and quite unpleasant experience. Most of the attendees' firms were severely damaged if not destroyed in 2008. This seems similar. Pride does seem to come before a fall. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5059232.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5059232.stm
- jstandard 8y ago
  This brings me back. While I didn't attend HedgeStock, I used to post on the Albourne Village forums of the "conference" organizer. They had a points system which I found a way to game, accumulating enough points to buy a Hedge Stock calendar. "strange" and "unpleasant" were thoughts that ran through mine and my coworkers heads as we paged through the calendar. For WeWork the vegan, hippy vibe seems part of their culture. I had a harder time reconciling that type of atmosphere applied to the investment management industry.
  - scrumper 8y ago
    Ah yes, Albourne Village. I vaguely remember their website having an actual village metaphor for navigation - I guess it was just close enough to the '90s :)
tropdrop 8y ago
From my own brief membership at WeWork - can confirm about the cult feeling. Every member of the "WeWork [support] Team" had this airhead quality about them that assured one there wasn't calculation (or anything of depth, really) going on under her/his fanatically happy veneer. I'm happy I read this article, because I thought I was being judgmental in thinking none were too bright.
scythe 8y ago
I work at a WeWork office in the East Bay. My impression of WeWork events is that a small minority attends them and a slightly larger minority goes just long enough to swipe some free food (I would never). My main complaints are that the office is noisy and people seem to think it's acceptable to eat lunch in the shared workspace, also the keycards are terrible and usually require 3-4 attempts to open any door. As for a cult-like atmosphere, I haven't noticed anything like that, but then again I don't work for WeWork. But the bright side about the WeWork office? On any given day, 80% of the desks are empty. I certainly can't complain about that!
- steveeq1 8y ago
  I don't get it, what's wrong with eating in a shared workspace? I don't work in one, but it seems like a "normal" thing to do.
  - rleigh 8y ago
    It's beyond antisocial. Being forced to smell and see food, and watch people eat can be disgusting. Some food is obviously worse than others. Deliberately inflicting it on an entire office is not-so-subtly telling everyone else that their eating at their desk, rather than use any provided kitchen or dining facilities, is more important to them than their consideration of every other person in the place. It might be "normal" in some places, but those are places I would find detestable. It only takes one person to make the rest of an open plan office feel nauseous. If a person can't find 30 or even 15 minutes to leave their desk to eat their lunch, then there's something seriously wrong with their work culture. It's not like they are going to be actually "working" while stuffing food into their faces. They should take the time to switch off for a few minutes for their own physical and mental health, and the consideration of others.
    - jpindar 8y ago
      You'd get more sympathy without the "its for their own good" part.
whitepoplar 8y ago
Can anyone recommend a "coworking space" [0] for people who don't like coworking spaces? I like to work on my own independent projects, preferably at a place that isn't my apartment, but I just can't stand WeWork-style coworking spaces, which I find to be a mix of equal parts motivational speech, "networking," pretension, and pretend work. It just seems so fake to me. Am I being closed-minded? [0]: I live in NYC fwiw.
- btkramer9 8y ago
  Any library?
  - ghaff 8y ago
    The problem with working out of libraries and similar spaces is that you have to jump outside (or wherever) to do phone calls. If that isn't part of your routine, not an issue obviously. I do sometimes work out of a library but I end up having to move elsewhere to do calls a few times during a typical day.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Most libraries have private rooms you can reserve in blocks of times for calls. I use my local library as a coworking space to escape the house (as it’s occupied by spouse, kids, and dog) when working from home.
- otoburb 8y ago
  Depending on your hours and your location, Spacious[1] has worked for me (briefly). Good for "office" daytime hours when you want to work in sync with (but not actually "with") other day workers. Spacious was very useful as a parent in a small flat during summer when the children were off school. Spacious also comes out cheaper per month than other co-working services because by design you are only restricted to certain hours of working (i.e. no 24x7 access). [1] https://www.spacious.com/ https://www.spacious.com/
- janstenpickle 8y ago
sonnyblarney 8y ago
I lose so much respect for people like this. I don't want to offend Americans, but this is mostly an American thing and it's not just corporate: it's politics, religion, NGOs, entertainment, news - everywhere. (America literally invents it's own religions!) The scariest part is when you meet true believers, those not just 'playing the game' but are really on the koolaid. I believe this is because in America, people don't have quite as much of a cultural foundation to buy into, or rather, the local culture might be sparse, or unappealing. In non-American Western cultures and certainly Japan - there are establishment role models for people to look up to, across the spectrum in business, politics, nobility, etc. and there are tons of accepted cultural norms in sports, the arts, culture, cuisine etc.. There are more 'established ways' about everything from office culture, to manners, to politics, to religion. It's as though there are fewer 'seekers' perhaps because people are more grounded in their identities. Paradoxically this leaves less room for true change to happen because, in a way innovation often comes about when there's a little bit of kool-aid in the mix. You can see this with Nike's recent commercialization ostensible social justice movements, or even with some of Steve Job's old ads. The one with Gahndi in it ... 'memba that? So funny. I wish De Tocqueville were still alive to give us an updated view on things.
- sctb 8y ago
  Handwave-y nationalistic generalizations rarely lead to thoughtful discussion so we'd appreciate it if you would please not post them.
  - darn 8y ago
    You only call these out when the target is Americans. It's never "handwave-y nationalistic generalizations" when it's Americans doing it to others. It's becoming hilarious from where I sit, really
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    The article specifically concerns 'cultish behaviour' in a uniquely American firm, and the author is specifically speaking from the perspective of a 'non American'. My comment reflects observations I've made having living in many places around the world, speaking several languages immersing myself several different cultures and I think they speak directly to the nature of the article, more so than most of the comments on this thread which are a smidge colloquial side by HN standards. Also this isn't an issue of 'nationalism', it's about culture, ironically those are two subjects North Americans tend to conflate.
nikanj 8y ago
WeWork seems to really attract the "playing startup" crowd. Lots of networking, craft beers, office puppies, the whole nine yards. Incidentally, the hectic foosball, random barking and other sounds of great enthusiasm make it damn near impossible to actually do any deep work there.
CobrastanJorji 8y ago
"There are 150 million orphans in the world, but we want to solve this problem and give them a new family: the WeWork family." ...what? Oh, I see, it's because WeWork is launching a private elementary school for budding entrepreneurs. ...what?
Soundest 8y ago
Many months ago I listened to a podcast about WeWork that summarised the problem as: renting office space is a very traditional business. It's demonstrably true that the cost of these rental spaces is cyclical with the business cycle, and companies like WeWork are basically taking on long term leases at the height of the boom. These leases are 10-15 years, and realistically the value of those spaces are going to dip at some point over that time, at which point the business goes bankrupt because it's massively leveraged. Everything I've seen about WeWork indicates that this is exactly right -they've got a very traditional, poor business strategy, alongside full on insanity scale silicon valley optimism. Does anyone know why WeWork is valued at close to 10x competitor Regus?
subjectHarold 8y ago
Believe it or not, the last tech bubble had a company doing exactly the same thing. They were called Regus, they ended up in bankruptcy and sold off their US division to avoid shutting down entirely. They are still running, they are significantly larger than WeWork (they have offices everywhere from New York to Mongolia)...somehow they are only 10% as valuable. Seems legit... And the CEO of Regus is still a bit crazy about tech btw. They actually have an R&D arm that is trying to build self-driving office cars...or something. I never worked it out.
rland 8y ago
This reminded me of another article I read about this company: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-27/wework-accounts-for-consciousness https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-27/wework-ac... Their value is predicated entirely on the perception. Select quote from the CEO: >"WeWork isn’t really a real estate company. It’s a state of consciousness, he argues, a generation of interconnected emotionally intelligent entrepreneurs." Riiiiiiight.

45 points by sytelus 8y ago

I know a few people at the NYC office and have observed some of this, but I'm not sure if that muchworse than other "startups". My own (far smaller, about $500m / 400 people) employer certainly has a bit of groupthink itself. If the one correcting comment on the article > Pescatarian not Vegan. Wework still have dairy, eggs and fish allowed at their events. is true, I'm not sure how much i can trust the rest of it.

rbinv 8y ago
Should have gone pesca-pescatarian.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago

Oh my, are these people going to have a "Well, that was embarrassing" moment later. Then: A big part of being a woman is to help men [like Adam] manifest their calling in life.” Aaaaaaaand nope.

draw_down 8y ago
Yeah, that was a real “yikes” moment for me too.
Spivak 8y ago
Reminds me of a quote from The Bell Jar which will probably make you just as uncomfortable as Esther. > "What a man is is an arrow into the future and what a woman is is the place the arrow shoots off from." There's no shame in wanting to play a support class but don't pressure others into it.
- to_bpr 8y ago
  There's no shame in wanting to differ from the status quo maintained since time immemorial, but don't pressure others into it. Valid?
  - Spivak 8y ago
    I don't think so, at least not completely. The message should be to treat others as individuals and not impose societal expectations on others. Don't assume that the default or expected role for a woman is to be supporting and passive. And don't look down on a woman who still wants to assume that role.
itronitron 8y ago
a big part of being a cult member is to help the cult leader manifest their calling in life

tonyedgecombe 8y ago

I'm not surprised the property industry dislikes WeWork, WeWork's success is a reflection of how poorly that industry serves it's customers.

CharlesDodgson 8y ago
I think there is more than a grain of truth to this.
rchaud 8y ago
The "property industry" is doing just fine seeing as how they are the ones selling top-shelf commercial leases in bulk to WeWork. "Success" for these types of companies is similar to their tedious "we can change the world" mantra in that neither have any basis in reality. They have racked up a $723 million loss and are on the hook for $4b in new spending, and yet they are a 'decacorn'. They are propped up through investment capital alone. No wonder they have to roll out these absurd claims of expanding into education, daycare and town-building.

anon08142018 8y ago

Sounds like just a sampling bias. The kind of people with the time and desire to go to this festival are probably the kind of people to "drink the kool aid". They are also smart enough to know not to trash their company while being interviewed by a stranger. If I was at a company sponsored event I would of course praise our glorious corporation to some stranger, but its not like I actually believe the hype, I just like getting paid.

theriddlr 8y ago

The Gwyneth Paltrow of coworking.

gdulli 8y ago
When Paltrow was referenced in the article I was thinking, this is one of those touches that in fiction would stand out as too contrived or on the nose. I wonder if there will be a day when WeWork "consciously unincorporates."

CharlesDodgson 8y ago

Am I extremely out of the loop by just thinking that it's a hot desk company that rolls up all the expenses of the office adds 10%-25%, throws in some booze and lunches and says it's changing the world?

alexpetralia 8y ago
Actually yes - this perspective would discount the immense value of brand, design, narrative and belief. And before you think that that stuff is "not real", consider that the reason you do anything is because of some dominant narrative you may or may not have reflected on. Narratives are what get people build rockets and go to the moon, or build them and go to war instead.
- Soundest 8y ago
  Whilst that's true, narratives at some point do have to meet reality. If rental prices drop by 10%, it doesn't matter what you believe, WeWork will be underwater.
  - hcknwscommenter 8y ago
    Wework is underwater. Have you seen their bond offerings? They will default.
- smsm42 8y ago
  These things are definitely real. But while building a brand that elicits cult-like behavior from its followers is undoubtedly a huge marketing success, of which all other marketers should be justifiably envious, is it "changing the world"? The would has seen such efforts - both successful and not - since the first state and the first religion has been founded. > Narratives are what get people build rockets But is WeWork building rockets to go to the moon? Last noticeable thing I remember them doing is banning their workers from eating meat. Beyond that - yep, they rent out offices. So?
- badcede 8y ago
  The moon thing was a cold war narrative.

scrumper 8y ago

I attended a similar industry event in 2006 called HedgeStock[1], for hedge funds and the various remora fish that feed off them. It was a very strange and quite unpleasant experience. Most of the attendees' firms were severely damaged if not destroyed in 2008. This seems similar. Pride does seem to come before a fall. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5059232.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5059232.stm

jstandard 8y ago
This brings me back. While I didn't attend HedgeStock, I used to post on the Albourne Village forums of the "conference" organizer. They had a points system which I found a way to game, accumulating enough points to buy a Hedge Stock calendar. "strange" and "unpleasant" were thoughts that ran through mine and my coworkers heads as we paged through the calendar. For WeWork the vegan, hippy vibe seems part of their culture. I had a harder time reconciling that type of atmosphere applied to the investment management industry.
- scrumper 8y ago
  Ah yes, Albourne Village. I vaguely remember their website having an actual village metaphor for navigation - I guess it was just close enough to the '90s :)

tropdrop 8y ago

From my own brief membership at WeWork - can confirm about the cult feeling. Every member of the "WeWork [support] Team" had this airhead quality about them that assured one there wasn't calculation (or anything of depth, really) going on under her/his fanatically happy veneer. I'm happy I read this article, because I thought I was being judgmental in thinking none were too bright.

scythe 8y ago

I work at a WeWork office in the East Bay. My impression of WeWork events is that a small minority attends them and a slightly larger minority goes just long enough to swipe some free food (I would never). My main complaints are that the office is noisy and people seem to think it's acceptable to eat lunch in the shared workspace, also the keycards are terrible and usually require 3-4 attempts to open any door. As for a cult-like atmosphere, I haven't noticed anything like that, but then again I don't work for WeWork. But the bright side about the WeWork office? On any given day, 80% of the desks are empty. I certainly can't complain about that!

steveeq1 8y ago
I don't get it, what's wrong with eating in a shared workspace? I don't work in one, but it seems like a "normal" thing to do.
- rleigh 8y ago
  It's beyond antisocial. Being forced to smell and see food, and watch people eat can be disgusting. Some food is obviously worse than others. Deliberately inflicting it on an entire office is not-so-subtly telling everyone else that their eating at their desk, rather than use any provided kitchen or dining facilities, is more important to them than their consideration of every other person in the place. It might be "normal" in some places, but those are places I would find detestable. It only takes one person to make the rest of an open plan office feel nauseous. If a person can't find 30 or even 15 minutes to leave their desk to eat their lunch, then there's something seriously wrong with their work culture. It's not like they are going to be actually "working" while stuffing food into their faces. They should take the time to switch off for a few minutes for their own physical and mental health, and the consideration of others.
  - jpindar 8y ago
    You'd get more sympathy without the "its for their own good" part.

whitepoplar 8y ago

Can anyone recommend a "coworking space" [0] for people who don't like coworking spaces? I like to work on my own independent projects, preferably at a place that isn't my apartment, but I just can't stand WeWork-style coworking spaces, which I find to be a mix of equal parts motivational speech, "networking," pretension, and pretend work. It just seems so fake to me. Am I being closed-minded? [0]: I live in NYC fwiw.

btkramer9 8y ago
Any library?
- ghaff 8y ago
  The problem with working out of libraries and similar spaces is that you have to jump outside (or wherever) to do phone calls. If that isn't part of your routine, not an issue obviously. I do sometimes work out of a library but I end up having to move elsewhere to do calls a few times during a typical day.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Most libraries have private rooms you can reserve in blocks of times for calls. I use my local library as a coworking space to escape the house (as it’s occupied by spouse, kids, and dog) when working from home.
otoburb 8y ago
Depending on your hours and your location, Spacious[1] has worked for me (briefly). Good for "office" daytime hours when you want to work in sync with (but not actually "with") other day workers. Spacious was very useful as a parent in a small flat during summer when the children were off school. Spacious also comes out cheaper per month than other co-working services because by design you are only restricted to certain hours of working (i.e. no 24x7 access). [1] https://www.spacious.com/ https://www.spacious.com/
janstenpickle 8y ago

sonnyblarney 8y ago

I lose so much respect for people like this. I don't want to offend Americans, but this is mostly an American thing and it's not just corporate: it's politics, religion, NGOs, entertainment, news - everywhere. (America literally invents it's own religions!) The scariest part is when you meet true believers, those not just 'playing the game' but are really on the koolaid. I believe this is because in America, people don't have quite as much of a cultural foundation to buy into, or rather, the local culture might be sparse, or unappealing. In non-American Western cultures and certainly Japan - there are establishment role models for people to look up to, across the spectrum in business, politics, nobility, etc. and there are tons of accepted cultural norms in sports, the arts, culture, cuisine etc.. There are more 'established ways' about everything from office culture, to manners, to politics, to religion. It's as though there are fewer 'seekers' perhaps because people are more grounded in their identities. Paradoxically this leaves less room for true change to happen because, in a way innovation often comes about when there's a little bit of kool-aid in the mix. You can see this with Nike's recent commercialization ostensible social justice movements, or even with some of Steve Job's old ads. The one with Gahndi in it ... 'memba that? So funny. I wish De Tocqueville were still alive to give us an updated view on things.

sctb 8y ago
Handwave-y nationalistic generalizations rarely lead to thoughtful discussion so we'd appreciate it if you would please not post them.
- darn 8y ago
  You only call these out when the target is Americans. It's never "handwave-y nationalistic generalizations" when it's Americans doing it to others. It's becoming hilarious from where I sit, really
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  The article specifically concerns 'cultish behaviour' in a uniquely American firm, and the author is specifically speaking from the perspective of a 'non American'. My comment reflects observations I've made having living in many places around the world, speaking several languages immersing myself several different cultures and I think they speak directly to the nature of the article, more so than most of the comments on this thread which are a smidge colloquial side by HN standards. Also this isn't an issue of 'nationalism', it's about culture, ironically those are two subjects North Americans tend to conflate.

nikanj 8y ago

WeWork seems to really attract the "playing startup" crowd. Lots of networking, craft beers, office puppies, the whole nine yards. Incidentally, the hectic foosball, random barking and other sounds of great enthusiasm make it damn near impossible to actually do any deep work there.

CobrastanJorji 8y ago

"There are 150 million orphans in the world, but we want to solve this problem and give them a new family: the WeWork family." ...what? Oh, I see, it's because WeWork is launching a private elementary school for budding entrepreneurs. ...what?

Soundest 8y ago

Many months ago I listened to a podcast about WeWork that summarised the problem as: renting office space is a very traditional business. It's demonstrably true that the cost of these rental spaces is cyclical with the business cycle, and companies like WeWork are basically taking on long term leases at the height of the boom. These leases are 10-15 years, and realistically the value of those spaces are going to dip at some point over that time, at which point the business goes bankrupt because it's massively leveraged. Everything I've seen about WeWork indicates that this is exactly right -they've got a very traditional, poor business strategy, alongside full on insanity scale silicon valley optimism. Does anyone know why WeWork is valued at close to 10x competitor Regus?

subjectHarold 8y ago

Believe it or not, the last tech bubble had a company doing exactly the same thing. They were called Regus, they ended up in bankruptcy and sold off their US division to avoid shutting down entirely. They are still running, they are significantly larger than WeWork (they have offices everywhere from New York to Mongolia)...somehow they are only 10% as valuable. Seems legit... And the CEO of Regus is still a bit crazy about tech btw. They actually have an R&D arm that is trying to build self-driving office cars...or something. I never worked it out.

rland 8y ago

This reminded me of another article I read about this company: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-27/wework-accounts-for-consciousness https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-27/wework-ac... Their value is predicated entirely on the perception. Select quote from the CEO: >"WeWork isn’t really a real estate company. It’s a state of consciousness, he argues, a generation of interconnected emotionally intelligent entrepreneurs." Riiiiiiight.