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I fail to see “dedication”. Anyone getting paid minimum wage and working sub hours for a non career job is not going to be highly dedicated to a position. Whi

I fail to see “dedication”. Anyone getting paid minimum wage and working sub hours for a non career job is not going to be highly dedicated to a position. While I’m not against unionizing, I am against the rise of unskilled labor assuming that an employer owes them something. Unionizing isn’t inherently bad, but unions do tend to exploit both the laborer and the employer for the union’s gain. Failed labor unions combined with a workforce culture that feels owed is ultimately hurts these workers in the long term.

drb91 8y ago
I’ve noted that the most fulfilling jobs tend to pay the least. Are all minimum wage jobs satisfying? No. But I’d bet the average social worker is more dedicated than the average engineer. Furthermore, after having talked to several employees of whole foods over the years... I think there’s higher satisfaction there than elsewhere. People enjoy doing things well, even if it is an every day thing.
- Marsymars 8y ago
  In my home province, average social worker pay is comparable to average engineer pay.
  - drb91 8y ago
    That’s either great or terrible, but I can’t tell which. Are they paid well?
    - Marsymars 8y ago
      Yes, pretty well. Individual median salaries about on par with median household income.
  - opportune 8y ago
    I bet your home province doesn’t have many engineers
    - Marsymars 8y ago
      Roughly 20% less than average for the country (Canada). (Keeping in mind software developers generally can't call themselves "engineers" in Canada.)
    - cliffordthedog 8y ago
      Opposite problem, too many relative to jobs.
  - vkou 8y ago
    Where I live, average social worker pay puts them only one rung above the people they are supposed to care for.
caconym_ 8y ago
Oh, so unskilled employees shouldn't be so entitled as to want the protection of unions (etc.)... but also unions are bad for them? Come on. Workers of any skill level are "owed" whatever they can get, because that's the same ethic employed by their employers.
- HammerJack 8y ago
  You have to remember though, if a corporation is doing it, it's good business/capitalism. If an individual is doing it, it's greed or something similar. E.g. wage negotiations.
  - caconym_ 8y ago
    Silly me, I forgot! Thanks for the reminder, friend.
trophycase 8y ago
What a joke. Maybe if they were in a union they would get paid more than minimum and be more "dedicated" as you say.
bonestamp2 8y ago
I have trouble getting on board with your opinion about their dedication because Whole Foods stores across the country have some of the best and most consistent customer service experiences I've had. I'd say there's no doubt they are more dedicated than most retail workers. The real question for me is if they are worth $15/hr? I don't know the business, so I can't say with any certainty there.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  Amazon is a trillion dollar company. There is no reason they can't pay $15/hour.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - mulmen 8y ago
    That is a naive perspective that betrays a deep misunderstanding of both the stock market and operation of a business.
  - erik_seaberg 8y ago
    $15/hour for 560K full-time employees would be $17B/year. Amazon shares are somehow a $1T commodity for speculators but the actual business clears $3B/year, so depending on how much of their SG&A today is labor they might truly be unable to sustain it.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I really wish that all people who get paid $15/hr and are said to be not worth it would go on strike. I'd guess things would crumble pretty quickly. Probably much quicker than if the people who make $100+/hr stopped working.
  - bonestamp2 8y ago
    Just for the record, I didn't say they're not worth $15/hr. Maybe they're worth $20/hr. They're worth whatever value they bring to the business + retention bonus since hiring new people also costs money -- and I think in the case of whole foods that number is high, but without studying their business I don't know what that number is. To throw out $15/hr arbitrarily doesn't help anyone; it might be less than they're worth.
komali2 8y ago
I'd need to see evidence of your claims that (1) anyone getting paid minimum wage is not going to be highly dedicated or (2) that anybody working sub hours is not going to be highly dedicated or (3) that service jobs are "non career jobs" or (4) that service jobs are "unskilled" or (5) that there are a class of employees owed nothing by their employers or (6) unions tend to exploit the laborer and the employer or (7) what a "failed" labor union is or (8) unions ultimately hurt workers in the long term. I am doing what I can to remove my emotional reaction to your comment, which I find to cast a wide and unfounded net, from my response. I apologize if I didn't do a very good job.
maxerickson 8y ago
The going rate for someone that just shows up to most of their shifts isn't minimum wage...

drb91 8y ago

I’ve noted that the most fulfilling jobs tend to pay the least. Are all minimum wage jobs satisfying? No. But I’d bet the average social worker is more dedicated than the average engineer. Furthermore, after having talked to several employees of whole foods over the years... I think there’s higher satisfaction there than elsewhere. People enjoy doing things well, even if it is an every day thing.

Marsymars 8y ago
In my home province, average social worker pay is comparable to average engineer pay.
- drb91 8y ago
  That’s either great or terrible, but I can’t tell which. Are they paid well?
  - Marsymars 8y ago
    Yes, pretty well. Individual median salaries about on par with median household income.
- opportune 8y ago
  I bet your home province doesn’t have many engineers
  - Marsymars 8y ago
    Roughly 20% less than average for the country (Canada). (Keeping in mind software developers generally can't call themselves "engineers" in Canada.)
  - cliffordthedog 8y ago
    Opposite problem, too many relative to jobs.
- vkou 8y ago
  Where I live, average social worker pay puts them only one rung above the people they are supposed to care for.

caconym_ 8y ago

Oh, so unskilled employees shouldn't be so entitled as to want the protection of unions (etc.)... but also unions are bad for them? Come on. Workers of any skill level are "owed" whatever they can get, because that's the same ethic employed by their employers.

HammerJack 8y ago
You have to remember though, if a corporation is doing it, it's good business/capitalism. If an individual is doing it, it's greed or something similar. E.g. wage negotiations.
- caconym_ 8y ago
  Silly me, I forgot! Thanks for the reminder, friend.

trophycase 8y ago

What a joke. Maybe if they were in a union they would get paid more than minimum and be more "dedicated" as you say.

bonestamp2 8y ago

I have trouble getting on board with your opinion about their dedication because Whole Foods stores across the country have some of the best and most consistent customer service experiences I've had. I'd say there's no doubt they are more dedicated than most retail workers. The real question for me is if they are worth $15/hr? I don't know the business, so I can't say with any certainty there.

s73v3r_ 8y ago
Amazon is a trillion dollar company. There is no reason they can't pay $15/hour.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- mulmen 8y ago
  That is a naive perspective that betrays a deep misunderstanding of both the stock market and operation of a business.
- erik_seaberg 8y ago
  $15/hour for 560K full-time employees would be $17B/year. Amazon shares are somehow a $1T commodity for speculators but the actual business clears $3B/year, so depending on how much of their SG&A today is labor they might truly be unable to sustain it.
maxxxxx 8y ago
I really wish that all people who get paid $15/hr and are said to be not worth it would go on strike. I'd guess things would crumble pretty quickly. Probably much quicker than if the people who make $100+/hr stopped working.
- bonestamp2 8y ago
  Just for the record, I didn't say they're not worth $15/hr. Maybe they're worth $20/hr. They're worth whatever value they bring to the business + retention bonus since hiring new people also costs money -- and I think in the case of whole foods that number is high, but without studying their business I don't know what that number is. To throw out $15/hr arbitrarily doesn't help anyone; it might be less than they're worth.

komali2 8y ago

I'd need to see evidence of your claims that (1) anyone getting paid minimum wage is not going to be highly dedicated or (2) that anybody working sub hours is not going to be highly dedicated or (3) that service jobs are "non career jobs" or (4) that service jobs are "unskilled" or (5) that there are a class of employees owed nothing by their employers or (6) unions tend to exploit the laborer and the employer or (7) what a "failed" labor union is or (8) unions ultimately hurt workers in the long term. I am doing what I can to remove my emotional reaction to your comment, which I find to cast a wide and unfounded net, from my response. I apologize if I didn't do a very good job.

maxerickson 8y ago

The going rate for someone that just shows up to most of their shifts isn't minimum wage...