4 ms·

Cell phones have easily been in use for 20 years, and handheld radios have been in use for far longer than that, at far higher power levels.

Groxx 16y ago
I don't recall hearing how everyone had a handheld radio stuck to their head for substantial amounts of time every day, as cell phones have today. Radiation damage, if it occurs, is cumulative. I'd be willing to bet that the heavier-use side of cell phone users have encountered far more radiation from their phones than a similar fraction of handheld radio users, even before accounting for the difference in proximity (phones = inches at best, radios = inches at minimum) which would give radiation from radios exponentially less radiation than they emit compared to phones. (not that I'm claiming they do cause cancer. Merely that the handheld radio side of the argument doesn't really work)
- CamperBob 16y ago
  Radiation damage, if it occurs, is cumulative. "I don't know what effect I'm talking about, exactly, but I'm sure it's cumulative."
  - Groxx 16y ago
    I can tell you've typed, but all I'm seeing is idiocy and an attempted insult thinly disguised as snark. Radiation damage, ie anything not from excess energy in the area causing injury like burns, but referring to genetic damage, is rather obviously cumulative if you consider it for more time than it took you to type that out. Genetic damage cannot be repaired. At best, the offending cell is killed. At worst, it divides and spreads its damaged code, sometimes becoming cancerous. Cancers frequently come from mutations. Radiation damage causes random mutations. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get an increased risk of cancers based exclusively off the sum total of radiation received, ignoring any time dimension. Look at any studies looking for "safe radiation doses", or consider why people don't snuggle up to radium-glowing blankets every night, or take a peek at why revigators are banned, or why you don't want radon in your basement; you'll see the same information pop up every time. Radiation is cumulative. Small amounts for a long time are just as dangerous as large amounts for a short time, except they don't cause burns.
    - CamperBob 16y ago
      Yeah. Because it's not as if there are different kinds of radiation, or anything.
      - Groxx 16y ago
        And the dangers of these multiple kinds of radiation are...? Damage to cells and damage to DNA. One is repaired. Modifying protein structures results in one of the above, as does causing higher energy molecular interactions potentially causing abnormal chemicals for a particular area. We've now covered every effect radiation can have on your body. One is guaranteed permanent and thus cumulative. One is not, and is only dangerous in higher degrees, and by the time that gets high enough to kill you, you've suffered massive genetic damage and will probably die anyway from cancers. All this of course is ignoring the possibility of radiation creating prions. I've heard of no studies which have found this to be the case, so I don't include it. And they cause cellular or genetic damage as well, so they're still accounted for, just more remotely. The different kinds of radiation effectively just determine how much damage (energy of the particle / wave) and how far they penetrate. ie, alpha particles typically only penetrate up to a few centimeters, but have massively more energy, while gamma rays can easily pass through you entirely, with beta particles roughly in between.

Groxx 16y ago

I don't recall hearing how everyone had a handheld radio stuck to their head for substantial amounts of time every day, as cell phones have today. Radiation damage, if it occurs, is cumulative. I'd be willing to bet that the heavier-use side of cell phone users have encountered far more radiation from their phones than a similar fraction of handheld radio users, even before accounting for the difference in proximity (phones = inches at best, radios = inches at minimum) which would give radiation from radios exponentially less radiation than they emit compared to phones. (not that I'm claiming they do cause cancer. Merely that the handheld radio side of the argument doesn't really work)

CamperBob 16y ago
Radiation damage, if it occurs, is cumulative. "I don't know what effect I'm talking about, exactly, but I'm sure it's cumulative."
- Groxx 16y ago
  I can tell you've typed, but all I'm seeing is idiocy and an attempted insult thinly disguised as snark. Radiation damage, ie anything not from excess energy in the area causing injury like burns, but referring to genetic damage, is rather obviously cumulative if you consider it for more time than it took you to type that out. Genetic damage cannot be repaired. At best, the offending cell is killed. At worst, it divides and spreads its damaged code, sometimes becoming cancerous. Cancers frequently come from mutations. Radiation damage causes random mutations. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get an increased risk of cancers based exclusively off the sum total of radiation received, ignoring any time dimension. Look at any studies looking for "safe radiation doses", or consider why people don't snuggle up to radium-glowing blankets every night, or take a peek at why revigators are banned, or why you don't want radon in your basement; you'll see the same information pop up every time. Radiation is cumulative. Small amounts for a long time are just as dangerous as large amounts for a short time, except they don't cause burns.
  - CamperBob 16y ago
    Yeah. Because it's not as if there are different kinds of radiation, or anything.
    - Groxx 16y ago
      And the dangers of these multiple kinds of radiation are...? Damage to cells and damage to DNA. One is repaired. Modifying protein structures results in one of the above, as does causing higher energy molecular interactions potentially causing abnormal chemicals for a particular area. We've now covered every effect radiation can have on your body. One is guaranteed permanent and thus cumulative. One is not, and is only dangerous in higher degrees, and by the time that gets high enough to kill you, you've suffered massive genetic damage and will probably die anyway from cancers. All this of course is ignoring the possibility of radiation creating prions. I've heard of no studies which have found this to be the case, so I don't include it. And they cause cellular or genetic damage as well, so they're still accounted for, just more remotely. The different kinds of radiation effectively just determine how much damage (energy of the particle / wave) and how far they penetrate. ie, alpha particles typically only penetrate up to a few centimeters, but have massively more energy, while gamma rays can easily pass through you entirely, with beta particles roughly in between.