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An outrageously unprofessional software process that created a product worth $50M! https://techcrunch.com/2011/02/02/match-com-acquires-online-dating-site-okc

An outrageously unprofessional software process that created a product worth $50M! https://techcrunch.com/2011/02/02/match-com-acquires-online-dating-site-okcupid-for-50-million-in-cash/ https://techcrunch.com/2011/02/02/match-com-acquires-online-...

danesparza 8y ago
The OP is about technical process in the software world. I'm not sure how a company's valuation comes into the conversation...
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  I assume the implication is "if OKC can fly by the seat of their pants and still make millions, anyone could!" Which is true, but still not advisable...
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Given that technical debt is quite hard for non-technical people to quantify, why wouldn't we expect that most startups would tend to accrue technical debt?
    - theseatoms 8y ago
      Can anyone quantify technical debt? Best case is something resembling a medical diagnosis.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        I think that could be enough. Actuaries have a good idea about when you are likely to die in the next two years. Basically, when you are old and your medical costs suddenly double. Doctors use the same sort of inductive reasoning for their prognosis. The industry probably collectively has all the information to put together useful actuarial tables on technical debt, but it's all silo'd in individual companies.
        theseatoms 8y ago
        Interesting. Are there IT consulting firms that specialize in this field of study?
    - adrianN 8y ago
      Startups accrue so much financial debt, adding some technical debt on top doesn't really make a difference.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        Technical debt doesn't accrue in a linear fashion. Instead, it's synergistic. Up to a certain point, it's a noticeable drag. Past that point, there is a change in the difficulty incurred. In the article, the combination of some "you're-supposed-to-just-not-do-that" with: >If (the database throws an error) { do nothing } resulted in a major mishap.
  - T2_t2 8y ago
    I think the implication is that they achieved the goal they had, to grow a company. Note that goal doesn't mention code at all. It depends what you think software engineering is - a means to an end, e.g. to grow a company, or as a craft you want to perfect and do for your whole career. I think there are more craft coders, because most jobs are at companies that have survived and there is more to lose from errors than gain from moving fast. The craft attitude may not be ideal when you want to go from zero to something, and avoid going back to zero very quickly. Or, perhaps more importantly, if you want to go from zero -> something wrong -> something wrong again -> something almost correct -> Product Market fit.
- jschwartzi 8y ago
  The point is that engineering decisions need to involve both the business and the technical side of things, and they need to be pragmatic and not tied to any particular dogma from either world.
mabbo 8y ago
That's not skill, that's luck. If the bug in question had instead leaked every customer's personal data there wouldn't be a $50m company, there'd be a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  I agree with your thinking, but with this particular example: you'd wish. See: every other data leak that happened over the last decade. It seems data leaks are harmless to companies.
  - laurent123456 8y ago
    I was going to say "not for a dating website", but I see that Ashley Madison still exists despite the massive data leak in 2015 including data from users who had paid to have their data deleted, so yes looks like there's no real fallback for data leaks.
JackFr 8y ago
Created a product worth $50M because of their software process or despite there software process.

danesparza 8y ago

The OP is about technical process in the software world. I'm not sure how a company's valuation comes into the conversation...

blacksmith_tb 8y ago
I assume the implication is "if OKC can fly by the seat of their pants and still make millions, anyone could!" Which is true, but still not advisable...
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Given that technical debt is quite hard for non-technical people to quantify, why wouldn't we expect that most startups would tend to accrue technical debt?
  - theseatoms 8y ago
    Can anyone quantify technical debt? Best case is something resembling a medical diagnosis.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      I think that could be enough. Actuaries have a good idea about when you are likely to die in the next two years. Basically, when you are old and your medical costs suddenly double. Doctors use the same sort of inductive reasoning for their prognosis. The industry probably collectively has all the information to put together useful actuarial tables on technical debt, but it's all silo'd in individual companies.
      - theseatoms 8y ago
        Interesting. Are there IT consulting firms that specialize in this field of study?
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Startups accrue so much financial debt, adding some technical debt on top doesn't really make a difference.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Technical debt doesn't accrue in a linear fashion. Instead, it's synergistic. Up to a certain point, it's a noticeable drag. Past that point, there is a change in the difficulty incurred. In the article, the combination of some "you're-supposed-to-just-not-do-that" with: >If (the database throws an error) { do nothing } resulted in a major mishap.
- T2_t2 8y ago
  I think the implication is that they achieved the goal they had, to grow a company. Note that goal doesn't mention code at all. It depends what you think software engineering is - a means to an end, e.g. to grow a company, or as a craft you want to perfect and do for your whole career. I think there are more craft coders, because most jobs are at companies that have survived and there is more to lose from errors than gain from moving fast. The craft attitude may not be ideal when you want to go from zero to something, and avoid going back to zero very quickly. Or, perhaps more importantly, if you want to go from zero -> something wrong -> something wrong again -> something almost correct -> Product Market fit.
jschwartzi 8y ago
The point is that engineering decisions need to involve both the business and the technical side of things, and they need to be pragmatic and not tied to any particular dogma from either world.

mabbo 8y ago

That's not skill, that's luck. If the bug in question had instead leaked every customer's personal data there wouldn't be a $50m company, there'd be a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
I agree with your thinking, but with this particular example: you'd wish. See: every other data leak that happened over the last decade. It seems data leaks are harmless to companies.
- laurent123456 8y ago
  I was going to say "not for a dating website", but I see that Ashley Madison still exists despite the massive data leak in 2015 including data from users who had paid to have their data deleted, so yes looks like there's no real fallback for data leaks.

JackFr 8y ago

Created a product worth $50M because of their software process or despite there software process.