5 ms·

founded by _former members_ (albeit founding members) of Google's TPU team. i wonder how they negotiated this from a legal standpoint. every employment contrac

founded by _former members_ (albeit founding members) of Google's TPU team. i wonder how they negotiated this from a legal standpoint. every employment contract i've ever signed certainly would not allow for starting a project this similar to my employer's core business.

ttul 8y ago
You can’t - in California anyhow - really stop employees from quitting and then competing with you. Most non compete forms have been made unlawful, which is a really good thing for competitiveness. In any case, I don’t see any confirmation that this startup is pursuing something that would be competitive with Google. The whole stealth thing leaves us with little to go on.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  But companies can (and Google does) prevent current employees from working on side projects—even on their own time and equipment. So I suppose the relevant question is: did these guys leave and then start with a completely blank slate? Presumably yes! Any IP ownership ambiguity that would arise from moonlighting would have been flushed out during funding due diligence.
  - kornish 8y ago
    Is this true? Moonlighting is legal in CA [1]. [1]: https://danashultz.com/2016/05/31/moonlighting-employees-protected-california-labor-code/ https://danashultz.com/2016/05/31/moonlighting-employees-pro...
    - ryandrake 8y ago
      They can prevent moonlighting if it creates a conflict of interest, for example if the work is similar to what the employer does or could do. For large companies, the definition of that can amount to “every potential side project”.
    - williamscales 8y ago
      Depending on the IP assignment clause in one's employment agreement, even if you are allowed to moonlight on your startup your employer may own the IP. I just checked mine and if I make any inventions related to my employer's business, then per the terms, I automatically grant the company the right to that invention. I've heard rumors that one can negotiate these clauses. But this is what I expect would be relevant for these engineers.
      - ttul 8y ago
        They can try to enforce that, but my understanding is that your brain is generally yours outside of working hours, and stuff you dream up is also yours. But, obviously it’s easier to quit and then do your inventing.
        ryandrake 8y ago
        It seems less risky to just not moonlight, especially if that moonlighting has the potential to turn into a high-$$$ business. Day zero IP litigation is last thing you need to be involved with when you're trying to bootstrap a technology startup. Even if you know with 100% certainly you would win, you'd be bled dry fighting BigCompany's hundreds of lawyers.
  - sanxiyn 8y ago
    > did these guys leave and then start with a completely blank slate? Almost certainly yes, because they also need to avoid Google patents granted for TPU. Source: I investigated this area and there are lots of TPU patents.
mayank 8y ago
Noncompetes are not enforceable in California, and it’s not terribly hard for experts to continue innovating past what they did at a previous employer.
- wpietri 8y ago
  And I think this is a big reason why California is home to so much innovation. It's a great example of how a strong focus on individual worker rights over corporate power provides broad social benefit.

ttul 8y ago

You can’t - in California anyhow - really stop employees from quitting and then competing with you. Most non compete forms have been made unlawful, which is a really good thing for competitiveness. In any case, I don’t see any confirmation that this startup is pursuing something that would be competitive with Google. The whole stealth thing leaves us with little to go on.

ryandrake 8y ago
But companies can (and Google does) prevent current employees from working on side projects—even on their own time and equipment. So I suppose the relevant question is: did these guys leave and then start with a completely blank slate? Presumably yes! Any IP ownership ambiguity that would arise from moonlighting would have been flushed out during funding due diligence.
- kornish 8y ago
  Is this true? Moonlighting is legal in CA [1]. [1]: https://danashultz.com/2016/05/31/moonlighting-employees-protected-california-labor-code/ https://danashultz.com/2016/05/31/moonlighting-employees-pro...
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    They can prevent moonlighting if it creates a conflict of interest, for example if the work is similar to what the employer does or could do. For large companies, the definition of that can amount to “every potential side project”.
  - williamscales 8y ago
    Depending on the IP assignment clause in one's employment agreement, even if you are allowed to moonlight on your startup your employer may own the IP. I just checked mine and if I make any inventions related to my employer's business, then per the terms, I automatically grant the company the right to that invention. I've heard rumors that one can negotiate these clauses. But this is what I expect would be relevant for these engineers.
    - ttul 8y ago
      They can try to enforce that, but my understanding is that your brain is generally yours outside of working hours, and stuff you dream up is also yours. But, obviously it’s easier to quit and then do your inventing.
      - ryandrake 8y ago
        It seems less risky to just not moonlight, especially if that moonlighting has the potential to turn into a high-$$$ business. Day zero IP litigation is last thing you need to be involved with when you're trying to bootstrap a technology startup. Even if you know with 100% certainly you would win, you'd be bled dry fighting BigCompany's hundreds of lawyers.
- sanxiyn 8y ago
  > did these guys leave and then start with a completely blank slate? Almost certainly yes, because they also need to avoid Google patents granted for TPU. Source: I investigated this area and there are lots of TPU patents.

mayank 8y ago

Noncompetes are not enforceable in California, and it’s not terribly hard for experts to continue innovating past what they did at a previous employer.

wpietri 8y ago
And I think this is a big reason why California is home to so much innovation. It's a great example of how a strong focus on individual worker rights over corporate power provides broad social benefit.