7 ms·

$20/hr for knows-wtf-they're-doing programmer time?

ISL 8y ago
$20/hr for doesn't-know-GIMP's-architecture-but-submits-a-possibly-useful-patch-anyway time. If $20 sounds too low, feel free to pitch in more. I'm a physics postdoc, not a software dev.
- dboreham 8y ago
  You're about an order of magnitude off.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - ISL 8y ago
    Please communicate that to the National Science Foundation (and by extension, the electorate). We're hemorrhaging some of our best scientists for that reason. I may soon join them.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - RussianCow 8y ago
    Do people really expect to be paid market rate for open source work?
    - daeken 8y ago
      If I'm doing something for free, I don't mind doing it for free (obviously). If I'm doing something for money, I want to be paid my going rate; otherwise, either find someone else or sell me on just volunteering. I'd never charge $20/hr for software stuff -- it's basically $0/hr (which is most of my time, by choice) or market rate. It's actually the market rate billing that free me up to volunteer with open source projects in the first place.
      - DoreenMichele 8y ago
        Studies back you up and suggest "Pay enough or not at all." Paying below market rate tends to just piss people off and make them feel insulted and undervalued.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        RussianCow 8y ago
        That's interesting. Do you happen to have a link to an article or study about this so that I can learn more?
        DoreenMichele 8y ago
        If you search for "pay enough or don't pay at all" you should have no problem finding sources. I'm not going to link to anything here because that implies vetting and I'm not going to vet anything. This isn't at all hard to find.
        RussianCow 8y ago
        Thanks, I couldn't get my search query just right. No need to be snarky, though.
        DoreenMichele 8y ago
        I wasn't being snarky.
        exolymph 8y ago
        Eh, this line came across as pretty snarky: "This isn't at all hard to find." (I don't necessarily object to snarkiness. And obviously, tone can be hard to judge in plain text.)
    - geoah 8y ago
      Why not?
      - RussianCow 8y ago
        Because I would expect that you generally sacrifice part of your salary for the ability to work on free and open source software full-time, much like you would generally take a pay cut working at a non-profit.
        antt 8y ago
        If you're doing brain dead admin work sure. If you're doing a contract not for profits pay the same as everyone else.
        gurkendoktor 8y ago
        I don't know why you're being downvoted. I'm a contractor and my hourly rate absolutely depends on how good I feel about a project. Working on (useful) open source is a plus. I wouldn't go down to $20 though.
        p_b_r 8y ago
        That's senseless. Non profit doesn't mean "worthy cause I should want to die on my sword for" it simply means the corporate financial structure doesn't accommodate profit-sucking shareholders, nor building the corporate coffers from year to year.
    - p_b_r 8y ago
      I expect people will be paid fairly for their contributions. Are you in a position to be telling people what their time is worth? Or, possibly you're simply being a pessimist?
    - dboreham 8y ago
      I think that "what people expect to be paid" is the very definition of "market rate".
  - vultour 8y ago
    I wonder what kind of wonderland you live in where most senior developers make close to half a million dollars.
    - LemonAndroid 8y ago
      It's called "Filter Bubble".
    - p_b_r 8y ago
      Define "senior". Senior citizen developers? Or you meant that title should mean stature? If you're still coding after being at it for >30 years then yes, you're worth that to help level up entire teams. But, yes, given the prevailing definition of senior, sure, they're worth nowhere near that.
    - dboreham 8y ago
      $20/hr was a contract rate. Your 1/2 million presumably is a salary (base). Not the same thing. $20/hr is roughly equivalent to $20k salary. $200k salary is reasonable for a competent developer who can hop on adding features to Gimp. In my reality no developer (even a sh*y one) makes $20k.
      - ttsda 8y ago
        In my reality most do.
  - esrauch 8y ago
    I don't think a developer spending one hour of their time could produce something worth $20 to GIMP. I'm not convinced you could even get a build and Dev environment even set up in that time for most major OSS projects, much less craft a good pull request and follow up to feedback.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
joshumax 8y ago
I make about $20 USD an hour doing low-level work writing performant C and x86 assembly at my current job. Granted, it's not my only source of income, but what is the average pay/hour for most devs?
- icelancer 8y ago
  For those skills as a mid-tier seniority developer, not in Silicon Valley in the land of make-believe? Probably like $85k-110k. If you live in SV it might be like $210k or something absurd.
  - irrational 8y ago
    So, about $50 an hour for non-SV developers?
    - MiddleEndian 8y ago
      Plus benefits. A contractor or consultant will charge more.
  - thatfrenchguy 8y ago
    210k is what you’d get as a junior though
    - esrauch 8y ago
      Even FAANG in SV doesn't pay juniors over 200k in total compensation.
- TheKarateKid 8y ago
  Check out Glassdoor.com.
exadeci 8y ago
They don't do it for the money but money helps them spend more time on it. If you ask people to give $50, fewer people will than if you ask them $20 so overall they will get more money.

ISL 8y ago

$20/hr for doesn't-know-GIMP's-architecture-but-submits-a-possibly-useful-patch-anyway time. If $20 sounds too low, feel free to pitch in more. I'm a physics postdoc, not a software dev.

dboreham 8y ago
You're about an order of magnitude off.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ISL 8y ago
  Please communicate that to the National Science Foundation (and by extension, the electorate). We're hemorrhaging some of our best scientists for that reason. I may soon join them.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- RussianCow 8y ago
  Do people really expect to be paid market rate for open source work?
  - daeken 8y ago
    If I'm doing something for free, I don't mind doing it for free (obviously). If I'm doing something for money, I want to be paid my going rate; otherwise, either find someone else or sell me on just volunteering. I'd never charge $20/hr for software stuff -- it's basically $0/hr (which is most of my time, by choice) or market rate. It's actually the market rate billing that free me up to volunteer with open source projects in the first place.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      Studies back you up and suggest "Pay enough or not at all." Paying below market rate tends to just piss people off and make them feel insulted and undervalued.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - RussianCow 8y ago
        That's interesting. Do you happen to have a link to an article or study about this so that I can learn more?
        DoreenMichele 8y ago
        If you search for "pay enough or don't pay at all" you should have no problem finding sources. I'm not going to link to anything here because that implies vetting and I'm not going to vet anything. This isn't at all hard to find.
        RussianCow 8y ago
        Thanks, I couldn't get my search query just right. No need to be snarky, though.
        DoreenMichele 8y ago
        I wasn't being snarky.
        exolymph 8y ago
        Eh, this line came across as pretty snarky: "This isn't at all hard to find." (I don't necessarily object to snarkiness. And obviously, tone can be hard to judge in plain text.)
  - geoah 8y ago
    Why not?
    - RussianCow 8y ago
      Because I would expect that you generally sacrifice part of your salary for the ability to work on free and open source software full-time, much like you would generally take a pay cut working at a non-profit.
      - antt 8y ago
        If you're doing brain dead admin work sure. If you're doing a contract not for profits pay the same as everyone else.
      - gurkendoktor 8y ago
        I don't know why you're being downvoted. I'm a contractor and my hourly rate absolutely depends on how good I feel about a project. Working on (useful) open source is a plus. I wouldn't go down to $20 though.
      - p_b_r 8y ago
        That's senseless. Non profit doesn't mean "worthy cause I should want to die on my sword for" it simply means the corporate financial structure doesn't accommodate profit-sucking shareholders, nor building the corporate coffers from year to year.
  - p_b_r 8y ago
    I expect people will be paid fairly for their contributions. Are you in a position to be telling people what their time is worth? Or, possibly you're simply being a pessimist?
  - dboreham 8y ago
    I think that "what people expect to be paid" is the very definition of "market rate".
- vultour 8y ago
  I wonder what kind of wonderland you live in where most senior developers make close to half a million dollars.
  - LemonAndroid 8y ago
    It's called "Filter Bubble".
  - p_b_r 8y ago
    Define "senior". Senior citizen developers? Or you meant that title should mean stature? If you're still coding after being at it for >30 years then yes, you're worth that to help level up entire teams. But, yes, given the prevailing definition of senior, sure, they're worth nowhere near that.
  - dboreham 8y ago
    $20/hr was a contract rate. Your 1/2 million presumably is a salary (base). Not the same thing. $20/hr is roughly equivalent to $20k salary. $200k salary is reasonable for a competent developer who can hop on adding features to Gimp. In my reality no developer (even a sh*y one) makes $20k.
    - ttsda 8y ago
      In my reality most do.
- esrauch 8y ago
  I don't think a developer spending one hour of their time could produce something worth $20 to GIMP. I'm not convinced you could even get a build and Dev environment even set up in that time for most major OSS projects, much less craft a good pull request and follow up to feedback.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

joshumax 8y ago

I make about $20 USD an hour doing low-level work writing performant C and x86 assembly at my current job. Granted, it's not my only source of income, but what is the average pay/hour for most devs?

icelancer 8y ago
For those skills as a mid-tier seniority developer, not in Silicon Valley in the land of make-believe? Probably like $85k-110k. If you live in SV it might be like $210k or something absurd.
- irrational 8y ago
  So, about $50 an hour for non-SV developers?
  - MiddleEndian 8y ago
    Plus benefits. A contractor or consultant will charge more.
- thatfrenchguy 8y ago
  210k is what you’d get as a junior though
  - esrauch 8y ago
    Even FAANG in SV doesn't pay juniors over 200k in total compensation.
TheKarateKid 8y ago
Check out Glassdoor.com.

exadeci 8y ago

They don't do it for the money but money helps them spend more time on it. If you ask people to give $50, fewer people will than if you ask them $20 so overall they will get more money.