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> In the case of gay-shaming, the obvious common cause is evolutionary: It's people trying to have more grandkids. I have to disagree. I don't think people who

> In the case of gay-shaming, the obvious common cause is evolutionary: It's people trying to have more grandkids. I have to disagree. I don't think people who opposr and hate gay people are doing it for evolutionary purposes. I haven't met anybody who thinks this guy is gay which meand he won't be making any kids, so let's hate him. Hate comes from much more fundamental place than that. For majority of people it's not "normal" hence different. And for majority what's different is scary. The same reason why immigrants of different skin color than majority population are hated. The same reason applies to extremely short, extremely tall, people with deformities, person with vitiligo in black/brown countries etc are treated differently, made fun of.

yorwba 8y ago
> I don't think people who opposr and hate gay people are doing it for evolutionary purposes. I haven't met anybody who thinks this guy is gay which meand he won't be making any kids, so let's hate him. That's not how evolution works. Unexpected movement on the ground near your feet doesn't scare you because you have carefully thought about how it will affect your chances to reproduce, but because the siblings of your ancestors didn't pay attention, were bitten by snakes and didn't get to reproduce.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
"Hate comes from much more fundamental place than that. For majority of people it's not "normal" hence different. And for majority what's different is scary. The same reason why immigrants of different skin color than majority population are hated." I don't agree at all, and I agree with the original post. I think a slight majority of men have an 'instinct' against gay sex that is not learned or socialized. The 'hate' is another thing , as something maybe more developed. I think at least 50% of the population has an emotional revulsion to the notion of 'male same sex' (not female same sex) and but only a tiny portion for whom that turns into something more aggressive. Also 'gay' is not just 'different'. It's not like someone wearing a different hat. Reproduction is at the core of the survival of the species, much like oxygen, food and water are at the core of your individual survival. Those instances are extremely powerful, the most powerful social motivators of all. So I actually do buy that 'moral shame' towards those who are seemingly 'opting out' of reproduction is part of a kind of darwinian social evolution. FYI - it's mostly the same reason that people who are 'obviously abnormal', ill or deformed. Women and Men want healthy children, that's a very deep instinct. Nobody (and probably not you) is actually attracted to deformed or obviously ill individuals. We may feel sympathetic to them, and want to help them - but we are definitely not attracted to them. 'Mocking them' - that's just people being crude. So obviously it's all armchair whatbout thinking ... but I'm inclined to think that this issue is deeply rooted in evolution and cultural evolution. But yes it's good news for gay Indians.
jm__87 8y ago
Personally I always assumed it is not about fear at all. Ask any bigoted moron and they won't say they are afraid of gay people and I believe them. I think it could be a few things. One possibility is that the person believes in a certain social hierarchy and is trying to enforce it (e.g. they believe gay people should be lower on the hierarchy than them and feel justified in letting them know it). Another alternative is someone who feels bad is trying to displace their own negative emotions and picking the easiest targets because they feel they are low in the hierarchy themselves. Probably there is also some merit to parents wanting grandkids and being upset if their child is gay. Another possibility is religious motivations - deeply religious people may worry their gay relative won't be accepted in to heaven or something like that.

yorwba 8y ago

> I don't think people who opposr and hate gay people are doing it for evolutionary purposes. I haven't met anybody who thinks this guy is gay which meand he won't be making any kids, so let's hate him. That's not how evolution works. Unexpected movement on the ground near your feet doesn't scare you because you have carefully thought about how it will affect your chances to reproduce, but because the siblings of your ancestors didn't pay attention, were bitten by snakes and didn't get to reproduce.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"Hate comes from much more fundamental place than that. For majority of people it's not "normal" hence different. And for majority what's different is scary. The same reason why immigrants of different skin color than majority population are hated." I don't agree at all, and I agree with the original post. I think a slight majority of men have an 'instinct' against gay sex that is not learned or socialized. The 'hate' is another thing , as something maybe more developed. I think at least 50% of the population has an emotional revulsion to the notion of 'male same sex' (not female same sex) and but only a tiny portion for whom that turns into something more aggressive. Also 'gay' is not just 'different'. It's not like someone wearing a different hat. Reproduction is at the core of the survival of the species, much like oxygen, food and water are at the core of your individual survival. Those instances are extremely powerful, the most powerful social motivators of all. So I actually do buy that 'moral shame' towards those who are seemingly 'opting out' of reproduction is part of a kind of darwinian social evolution. FYI - it's mostly the same reason that people who are 'obviously abnormal', ill or deformed. Women and Men want healthy children, that's a very deep instinct. Nobody (and probably not you) is actually attracted to deformed or obviously ill individuals. We may feel sympathetic to them, and want to help them - but we are definitely not attracted to them. 'Mocking them' - that's just people being crude. So obviously it's all armchair whatbout thinking ... but I'm inclined to think that this issue is deeply rooted in evolution and cultural evolution. But yes it's good news for gay Indians.

jm__87 8y ago

Personally I always assumed it is not about fear at all. Ask any bigoted moron and they won't say they are afraid of gay people and I believe them. I think it could be a few things. One possibility is that the person believes in a certain social hierarchy and is trying to enforce it (e.g. they believe gay people should be lower on the hierarchy than them and feel justified in letting them know it). Another alternative is someone who feels bad is trying to displace their own negative emotions and picking the easiest targets because they feel they are low in the hierarchy themselves. Probably there is also some merit to parents wanting grandkids and being upset if their child is gay. Another possibility is religious motivations - deeply religious people may worry their gay relative won't be accepted in to heaven or something like that.