13 ms·

The fact that marketers hate it can only be taken as evidence that it's a good thing.

by s17n 8y ago

wolco 8y ago
Marketers are the group who initially welcomed this. A shift is happening.
binomialxenon 8y ago
I get that this is a joke, but I also can't wait for AMP in its current form to die. Relatively lightweight pages = good… centralizing the web under Google's control = bad.
- philliphaydon 8y ago
  Yeah and the fact it doesn’t always work well. Trying to navigate and it isn’t working cos I need to break out of amp first.
  - stochastic_monk 8y ago
    It breaks most sites I use, unfairly promotes sites buying in toward the top, and I spend more data, time, and frustration than I would otherwise because I need to proceed to the actual page to get what I need. It’s a pure negative.
  - 14 8y ago
    This exactly...So frustrating clicking a web page and then inside the webpage parts of it are broken because you are actually at the amp site not the actual site. I haven't looked at how I can just avoid amp sites all together but if I had the choice I would.
  - Angostura 8y ago
    Waiting for Apple to introduce a 'show originals rather than AMP' default into iOS Safari.
    - millstone 8y ago
      This feels inevitable, culminating in "Default Reader Mode." It makes one wonder why Google didn't bury some option to disable AMP to head this off.
ignostic 8y ago
I know this is a bit cheeky, but HN sometimes has this comically simplistic view of other professions. It's as bad as the older C_Os who refer to all of dev and IT as "computer people." As someone who is both a developer and a marketer I can tell you both fields have depth and value, and neither is easy to do well. Success often hinges on making something people want. Marketing done well is hugely helpful in determining both what people want and whether they perceive a product as a solution to their problems, and it can help guide product development with marketing analytics and other user data. I don't think I'd ever have been successful without a marketing background. To take it back to the original point, I will never move to AMP. I spend a lot of time speeding up my pages through simplification, caching, and any other trick that makes sense (deferment, lazy loading, minification, combining, etc.) But there are a lot of reasons to not want your link to start with amp.google.com when someone shares my page. * Any links to that URL rely on the good graces of the search engines to "count" for rankings and continue sending traffic. This is especially worrying if I decide to change standards. Will my rankings tank? Will the crawlers get totally confused and think I have a bunch of 404s? Both have been reported. These are not risks I'm willing to take with my sites that took so much work to build and promote. * When someone shares my page I want my URL to be clear - not some google.com URL. That's both confusing for the user and bad for building a brand. Even if it was a cname to my own subdomain I'd feel better, e.g. amp.mysite.com * Aside from the reason above, the lock-in is philosophically problematic. I intentionally use cross-platform apps on my phone because I don't want to be locked into an ecosystem. I don't foresee switching to Apple, but I didn't foresee switching to Android either. The point is that I could. This freedom is important to me. * I don't trust that Google is committed to me and my content. Just look at the YouTubers getting screwed over by Google's lazy copyright policy. What makes you think they're going to suddenly staff up and/or care more on web content? Anyway, as a writer, marketer, business owner, and web developer: fuck AMP.
- nojvek 8y ago
  > I don't trust that Google is committed to me and my content. This * million. The only thing I can reliably trust google is that when I type a search query, results will be meaningful. Regarding them keeping my data secure, not selling out to NSA, dropping support for things on a whim, kicking users out of their platform, I can’t really trust them. Google or anyone else. It’s just not their core business. They don’t really make much money from AMP. It feels like some VP’s pet project to get a big fat stock bonus. If you run a serious business. Stay the hell away from AMP.
puranjay 8y ago
It wouldn't be a HN comment section without unnecessary hate on marketers. Not all marketers sell snakeoil and used cars, you know
- geezerjay 8y ago
  > It wouldn't be a HN comment section without unnecessary hate on marketers. Marketers are the single most destructive force impacting the lives of anyone using the internet nowadays, whether from attacks on privacy to manipulating democratic elections.
  - puranjay 8y ago
    Of course, the blame is on marketers using Facebok to manipulate elections. The programmers who make Facebook's entire marketing platform possible are completely blameless in this, aren't they? I really expect more nuanced comments than this on HN.
Existenceblinks 8y ago
Tech hype on k8s could also be seen as marketing. CTOs couldn't resist eh!
- majewsky 8y ago
  I see what you're getting at, but in my experience at my own company, the hype around k8s didn't come from the CTOs, it came from the actual users and cluster operators. Our team adopted k8s in 2015, not because any manager told us to, but because our lead architect pushed it inside the team. Other teams started using it themselves and it became so popular that we built not one, but two Kubernetes-as-a-Service solutions in different parts of the company (in a sort of accidental grassroots situation).
  - Existenceblinks 8y ago
    That's what I mean. CTOs have more management mindset or awareness than operators. And they love and trust their engineers. That's why they couldn't resist what their team embraces. They are willing to take technical debt risk because they think their team can handle it. There are categories of company. Yours has a dedicated team taking care of cluster, even has enough resource to make it k8s-as-a-service. Whatever hype rarely affects companies that have resources (money, human, time etc.) But hype doesn't choose companies, it spreads and kills approaches that are more proper than k8s to a lot of companies. I'd love to see how many SMEs even need servers clustering.
diminoten 8y ago
I can't take criticisms of AMP seriously when they (so frequently) pretend like there are no upsides.
chris_wot 8y ago
It's not just marketers who hate it.
pjc50 8y ago
Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is also my enemy, because he's just an asshole.

The fact that marketers hate it can only be taken as evidence that it's a good thing.

by s17n 8y ago

The fact that marketers hate it can only be taken as evidence that it's a good thing.

wolco 8y ago

Marketers are the group who initially welcomed this. A shift is happening.

binomialxenon 8y ago

I get that this is a joke, but I also can't wait for AMP in its current form to die. Relatively lightweight pages = good… centralizing the web under Google's control = bad.

philliphaydon 8y ago
Yeah and the fact it doesn’t always work well. Trying to navigate and it isn’t working cos I need to break out of amp first.
- stochastic_monk 8y ago
  It breaks most sites I use, unfairly promotes sites buying in toward the top, and I spend more data, time, and frustration than I would otherwise because I need to proceed to the actual page to get what I need. It’s a pure negative.
- 14 8y ago
  This exactly...So frustrating clicking a web page and then inside the webpage parts of it are broken because you are actually at the amp site not the actual site. I haven't looked at how I can just avoid amp sites all together but if I had the choice I would.
- Angostura 8y ago
  Waiting for Apple to introduce a 'show originals rather than AMP' default into iOS Safari.
  - millstone 8y ago
    This feels inevitable, culminating in "Default Reader Mode." It makes one wonder why Google didn't bury some option to disable AMP to head this off.

ignostic 8y ago

I know this is a bit cheeky, but HN sometimes has this comically simplistic view of other professions. It's as bad as the older C_Os who refer to all of dev and IT as "computer people." As someone who is both a developer and a marketer I can tell you both fields have depth and value, and neither is easy to do well. Success often hinges on making something people want. Marketing done well is hugely helpful in determining both what people want and whether they perceive a product as a solution to their problems, and it can help guide product development with marketing analytics and other user data. I don't think I'd ever have been successful without a marketing background. To take it back to the original point, I will never move to AMP. I spend a lot of time speeding up my pages through simplification, caching, and any other trick that makes sense (deferment, lazy loading, minification, combining, etc.) But there are a lot of reasons to not want your link to start with amp.google.com when someone shares my page. * Any links to that URL rely on the good graces of the search engines to "count" for rankings and continue sending traffic. This is especially worrying if I decide to change standards. Will my rankings tank? Will the crawlers get totally confused and think I have a bunch of 404s? Both have been reported. These are not risks I'm willing to take with my sites that took so much work to build and promote. * When someone shares my page I want my URL to be clear - not some google.com URL. That's both confusing for the user and bad for building a brand. Even if it was a cname to my own subdomain I'd feel better, e.g. amp.mysite.com * Aside from the reason above, the lock-in is philosophically problematic. I intentionally use cross-platform apps on my phone because I don't want to be locked into an ecosystem. I don't foresee switching to Apple, but I didn't foresee switching to Android either. The point is that I could. This freedom is important to me. * I don't trust that Google is committed to me and my content. Just look at the YouTubers getting screwed over by Google's lazy copyright policy. What makes you think they're going to suddenly staff up and/or care more on web content? Anyway, as a writer, marketer, business owner, and web developer: fuck AMP.

nojvek 8y ago
> I don't trust that Google is committed to me and my content. This * million. The only thing I can reliably trust google is that when I type a search query, results will be meaningful. Regarding them keeping my data secure, not selling out to NSA, dropping support for things on a whim, kicking users out of their platform, I can’t really trust them. Google or anyone else. It’s just not their core business. They don’t really make much money from AMP. It feels like some VP’s pet project to get a big fat stock bonus. If you run a serious business. Stay the hell away from AMP.

puranjay 8y ago

It wouldn't be a HN comment section without unnecessary hate on marketers. Not all marketers sell snakeoil and used cars, you know

geezerjay 8y ago
> It wouldn't be a HN comment section without unnecessary hate on marketers. Marketers are the single most destructive force impacting the lives of anyone using the internet nowadays, whether from attacks on privacy to manipulating democratic elections.
- puranjay 8y ago
  Of course, the blame is on marketers using Facebok to manipulate elections. The programmers who make Facebook's entire marketing platform possible are completely blameless in this, aren't they? I really expect more nuanced comments than this on HN.

Existenceblinks 8y ago

Tech hype on k8s could also be seen as marketing. CTOs couldn't resist eh!

majewsky 8y ago
I see what you're getting at, but in my experience at my own company, the hype around k8s didn't come from the CTOs, it came from the actual users and cluster operators. Our team adopted k8s in 2015, not because any manager told us to, but because our lead architect pushed it inside the team. Other teams started using it themselves and it became so popular that we built not one, but two Kubernetes-as-a-Service solutions in different parts of the company (in a sort of accidental grassroots situation).
- Existenceblinks 8y ago
  That's what I mean. CTOs have more management mindset or awareness than operators. And they love and trust their engineers. That's why they couldn't resist what their team embraces. They are willing to take technical debt risk because they think their team can handle it. There are categories of company. Yours has a dedicated team taking care of cluster, even has enough resource to make it k8s-as-a-service. Whatever hype rarely affects companies that have resources (money, human, time etc.) But hype doesn't choose companies, it spreads and kills approaches that are more proper than k8s to a lot of companies. I'd love to see how many SMEs even need servers clustering.

diminoten 8y ago

I can't take criticisms of AMP seriously when they (so frequently) pretend like there are no upsides.

chris_wot 8y ago

It's not just marketers who hate it.

pjc50 8y ago

Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is also my enemy, because he's just an asshole.