5 ms·

This sounds like a horrible law, with some really bad consequences. That said; > This is an extinction-level event for the internet, folks. Hyperbole like th

This sounds like a horrible law, with some really bad consequences. That said; > This is an extinction-level event for the internet, folks. Hyperbole like this doesn’t help, and in fact often turns off people whom you might be able to sway to your cause. The immediate reaction of most people to an absolutist phrase such as that is skepticism, which naturally leads to disbelief and scorn - not what you’re likely looking to foster in your readers.

drb91 8y ago
> Hyperbole like this doesn’t help, and in fact often turns off people whom you might be able to sway to your cause. I disagree; sometimes hyperbole is an effective way of waking people up to how they perceive the world. In this case I think it's fairly effective, and also worth it.
- komali2 8y ago
  But it's false. The loss of net neutrality didn't end the internet like everyone said it would. Instead, it's going just like the realists said: every couple months or so, Comcast and co do a new little fucky thing, slowly becoming shittier and shittier while dangling out carrots (that are later revoked) so people don't realize it. It's the same as why asking kavanaugh whether he'll overturn roe vs Wade is a pointless question. I think we should tell people what they realistically should be looking for. I think doing otherwise just gives opponents more ammunition. "See, net neutrality was repealed and nothing happened!"
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    But it's false. The loss of net neutrality didn't end the internet like everyone said it would It seems too early to tell how that's going to play out since it's such a political change -- I wouldn't expect providers to make any significant changes to take advantage of Network Neutrality at least until the midterm elections are over, no point investing in a business model if it's likely to change with the election.
    - komali2 8y ago
      Well that's kind of my point. But even after the midterms I wouldn't expect to see packaged website deals for at least another decade, when society has had time to adjust to the little levers they flip leading up to it.
      - Johnny555 8y ago
        I don't think many people were claiming that ending net neutrality would end the internet overnight, which is patently ridiculous since 100K employee companies can't change strategy that fast. But if the lack of net neutrality rules/laws continues, of course every big ISP is going to take advantage of the new rules to the detriment of customers. I think 10 years is too long of a timeframe, I'd expect significant changes to take advantage of no NN rules within the next 5 years.
  - betterunix2 8y ago
    "Instead, it's going just like the realists said: every couple months or so, Comcast and co do a new little fucky thing, slowly becoming shittier and shittier while dangling out carrots (that are later revoked) so people don't realize it." ...which eventually leads to the end of the Internet as we know it.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - monocasa 8y ago
    > The loss of net neutrality didn't end the internet like everyone said it would. It's just taking some time. ISPs are huge behemoths that don't turn on a dime. I know some product owners at ISPs, and they'v told me that it's their primary goal right now.
- mschuetz 8y ago
  I don't know, I can't take any of this seriously because of all the hyperboles thrown around left and right, without any seemingly level-headed analysis.
  - drb91 8y ago
    All of them?
    - mschuetz 8y ago
      Touché!
falcor84 8y ago
Agreed. I suppose if it passes, it's going to be another application of John Gilmore's excellent "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it".
- endgame 8y ago
  Now that it's no longer full of people who think like John Gilmore, I'm not convinced it does any more.
- pmoriarty 8y ago
  The widespread success of the Great Firewall of China puts the lie to such optimism.
- mcphage 8y ago
  > it's going to be another application of John Gilmore's excellent "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it". I think by now that saying has definitively proven false.
ddingus 8y ago
Let them be skeptics. We should welcome the ugly questions, identify better answers and seek to advance them.

drb91 8y ago

> Hyperbole like this doesn’t help, and in fact often turns off people whom you might be able to sway to your cause. I disagree; sometimes hyperbole is an effective way of waking people up to how they perceive the world. In this case I think it's fairly effective, and also worth it.

komali2 8y ago
But it's false. The loss of net neutrality didn't end the internet like everyone said it would. Instead, it's going just like the realists said: every couple months or so, Comcast and co do a new little fucky thing, slowly becoming shittier and shittier while dangling out carrots (that are later revoked) so people don't realize it. It's the same as why asking kavanaugh whether he'll overturn roe vs Wade is a pointless question. I think we should tell people what they realistically should be looking for. I think doing otherwise just gives opponents more ammunition. "See, net neutrality was repealed and nothing happened!"
- Johnny555 8y ago
  But it's false. The loss of net neutrality didn't end the internet like everyone said it would It seems too early to tell how that's going to play out since it's such a political change -- I wouldn't expect providers to make any significant changes to take advantage of Network Neutrality at least until the midterm elections are over, no point investing in a business model if it's likely to change with the election.
  - komali2 8y ago
    Well that's kind of my point. But even after the midterms I wouldn't expect to see packaged website deals for at least another decade, when society has had time to adjust to the little levers they flip leading up to it.
    - Johnny555 8y ago
      I don't think many people were claiming that ending net neutrality would end the internet overnight, which is patently ridiculous since 100K employee companies can't change strategy that fast. But if the lack of net neutrality rules/laws continues, of course every big ISP is going to take advantage of the new rules to the detriment of customers. I think 10 years is too long of a timeframe, I'd expect significant changes to take advantage of no NN rules within the next 5 years.
- betterunix2 8y ago
  "Instead, it's going just like the realists said: every couple months or so, Comcast and co do a new little fucky thing, slowly becoming shittier and shittier while dangling out carrots (that are later revoked) so people don't realize it." ...which eventually leads to the end of the Internet as we know it.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- monocasa 8y ago
  > The loss of net neutrality didn't end the internet like everyone said it would. It's just taking some time. ISPs are huge behemoths that don't turn on a dime. I know some product owners at ISPs, and they'v told me that it's their primary goal right now.
mschuetz 8y ago
I don't know, I can't take any of this seriously because of all the hyperboles thrown around left and right, without any seemingly level-headed analysis.
- drb91 8y ago
  All of them?
  - mschuetz 8y ago
    Touché!

falcor84 8y ago

Agreed. I suppose if it passes, it's going to be another application of John Gilmore's excellent "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it".

endgame 8y ago
Now that it's no longer full of people who think like John Gilmore, I'm not convinced it does any more.
pmoriarty 8y ago
The widespread success of the Great Firewall of China puts the lie to such optimism.
mcphage 8y ago
> it's going to be another application of John Gilmore's excellent "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it". I think by now that saying has definitively proven false.

ddingus 8y ago

Let them be skeptics. We should welcome the ugly questions, identify better answers and seek to advance them.