11 ms·

Yeah that's gonna be a no from me dog... As a marketer I've been fortunate enough to avoid most of the AMP fallout because of the specific makeup of my cliente

Yeah that's gonna be a no from me dog... As a marketer I've been fortunate enough to avoid most of the AMP fallout because of the specific makeup of my clientele. However, my colleagues who have to deal with AMP want Google to kill it forever and never bring it back.

da02 8y ago
What does a marketer do on a daily basis? Edit: Removed "Is it different than advertising?"
- Ensorceled 8y ago
  That's a little like asking "What does a blacksmith do? Is it different than making horseshoes?"
  - da02 8y ago
    I know it was a "stupid" question. But, sometimes I do that in the hopes that someone will provide a guide to a better understanding of the topic. Plus, HN is a good place for anecdotal stuff and "war stories" that are hard to find on other parts of the WWW.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - ladzoppelin 8y ago
    Marketing is extremely technical these days, IMO. Learning to work with API's and even learning Python seems like it would really help anyone in most fields.
  - ObsoleteNerd 8y ago
    I think it's a fair question. It's not an industry you hear lots about day to day, so the average person has no idea what's involved other than "they make ads". I've worked in large companies with 20+ person Marketing/PR departments and I'm not actually sure what their day to day job entails, and would totally be curious to know more. It's a major part of society these days, whether we love it or hate it. We all know IT has phone support roles, application development, system admins, project managers, etc... but I couldn't really tell you what all the different roles are in marketing.
- manigandham 8y ago
  Advertising is a subset marketing, specifically the communication part. The rest of marketing includes pricing, positioning, customer personas, etc.
- Gustomaximus 8y ago
  Its very diverse. Most people dont realise and I often see people say 'I want to work in marketing'' which is about as specific as saying 'I want to work in IT'. Even with advertising alone there is 1) buying it, 2) concepting the brand message 3) writing the specific content 4) creating how it looks 5) creating the material and 6) Placing it 7) project managing the process 8) analysing the results - all as separate fields. And within above people can specialise in specific categories like online, above the line (e.g. billboards), below the line offline (e.g. snail mail), TV, sponsorship etc And that's just getting ads live.... I googled 'types of marketing jobs' and read about 5 articles and they all have different guides about what makes marketing roles and none seems to cover it.... One article put sales in marketing which is a common misunderstanding of what marketing is, and several times I've seen companies put top sales management in charge of marketing because 'they can sell' which does not work as its a surprising different skill set. But here's a couple of articles to cover the common areas; https://www.localwise.com/a/313-21-types-of-marketing-jobs-to-unleash-your-creative-side https://www.localwise.com/a/313-21-types-of-marketing-jobs-t... https://marketingwit.com/types-of-marketing-jobs https://marketingwit.com/types-of-marketing-jobs Or you could go with the sometimes tech view... the guys that play with crayons and waste money :)
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    > above the line (e.g. billboards), below the line offline (e.g. snail mail) What is "the line"?
    - thaunatos 8y ago
      > What are ATL and BTL activities? They seem simple enough. Above The Line (ATL) advertising is where mass media is used to promote brands and reach out to the target consumers. These include conventional media as we know it, television and radio advertising, print as well as internet. This is communication that is targeted to a wider spread of audience, and is not specific to individual consumers. ATL advertising tries to reach out to the mass as consumer audience. > Below the line (BTL) advertising is more one to one, and involves the distribution of pamphlets, handbills, stickers, promotions, brochures placed at point of sale, on the roads through banners and placards. It could also involve product demos and samplings at busy places like malls and market places or residential complexes. http://www.theadvertisingclub.net/index.php/features/editorial/3256-difference-between-above-the-line-and-below-the-line-advertising http://www.theadvertisingclub.net/index.php/features/editori...
- jackgolding 8y ago
  I've worked in client side businesses with marketing teams of 5-30 people, two of those in marketing. A lot of the day to day the marketing teams do is manage outside agencies who do the creative, ad-buying, events and present that up to the stakeholders. There obviously is strategy work which is pre-campaign and is what the more senior marketers do (even though this is the most emphasized part in uni.) There are a few more functions which are more likely to not be subcontracted like CRM (emails), content (blogs etc), analytics, social media management and corporate comms. For your original question, the difference between this and advertising is an advertiser receives a brief and builds creatives appropriate to whatever channels they and the marketer choose. This is my experience and a few marketers have disagreed with this - obviously it varies between companies.
- sharkweek 8y ago
  Marketing can be super broad - but let's say you run a business that solves a problem for a specific type of customer. A marketer would find your marketable database of potential customers, work on messaging that appeals to the needs of the different audience types, find ways to target these audiences through channels like email, search marketing, content/SEO, social, etc., allocate budget broadly to test the different channels, and then turn dials accordingly dependent on where marketing budget has the best return. The daily tasks of this can be anything from producing new marketing collateral, testing new channel tactics, adjusting lead flow and lead distribution to a sales team, managing agency support, cozying up with PMs/engineers to get product features added, calm a sales manager who is pissy about why leads aren't flowing or being properly distributed, etc.
- dazc 8y ago
  I would broadly describe my role as a 'marketer' and, in all honesty, I add nothing of any value to my clients. It's a kind of wealth distribution, nothing more. I've had jobs in the past where I've been paid more for doing less. I've also experienced the exact reverse. I think a lot of people are in denial because they haven't had the life experience where they can say the same?
  - rchaud 8y ago
    > It's a kind of wealth distribution, nothing more. If this is truly how you feel, why not try to add value for your clients instead of just taking the money and not contributing? I work in digital marketing and what I do, among other things involves: - conducting split testing experiments to evaluate which types of marketing copy or site UX lead to better conversion - evaluating client's web properties to improve SEO, things like semantic content layout, redirect types (301 v 302 etc), accessibility, logical information architecture - writing code for custom event tracking, implementing schema-based markup for better search engine discoverability - creating outreach campaigns via email, social and paid search channels, each of which requires has its own KPIs and require a fair amount of domain knowledge to implement and measure effectively - analyzing search trend data to figure out if the product copy language is similar to what users are searching for
- propogandist 8y ago
  Depends on the type of marketing, at a large corporation this is broken out into various functions as a lot of roles roll up into marketing. Some categories: Advertising - digital, physical Analytics - web traffic, roi analysis, data-mining, segmentation etc Brand marketing - ads, identity / messaging, etc Content - creating new content for the business around product/service to support promotional activity Email - "subscribe to my newsletter", but at enterprise scale and managing content for the millions of subscribers you have Product marketing - often a function in large enterprises, may be involved with things like messaging within a product Web - website, seo, design, architecture, UX etc all fall under marketing There's also a lot of functions that support many of these marketing roles, like the tech that powers all this, keeping things working smoothly, including integrations, compliance with stuff like GDPR, CASL etc
s17n 8y ago
The fact that marketers hate it can only be taken as evidence that it's a good thing.
- wolco 8y ago
  Marketers are the group who initially welcomed this. A shift is happening.
- binomialxenon 8y ago
  I get that this is a joke, but I also can't wait for AMP in its current form to die. Relatively lightweight pages = good… centralizing the web under Google's control = bad.
  - philliphaydon 8y ago
    Yeah and the fact it doesn’t always work well. Trying to navigate and it isn’t working cos I need to break out of amp first.
    - stochastic_monk 8y ago
      It breaks most sites I use, unfairly promotes sites buying in toward the top, and I spend more data, time, and frustration than I would otherwise because I need to proceed to the actual page to get what I need. It’s a pure negative.
    - 14 8y ago
      This exactly...So frustrating clicking a web page and then inside the webpage parts of it are broken because you are actually at the amp site not the actual site. I haven't looked at how I can just avoid amp sites all together but if I had the choice I would.
    - Angostura 8y ago
      Waiting for Apple to introduce a 'show originals rather than AMP' default into iOS Safari.
squirrelicus 8y ago
I was going to tank the downvotes and just post a root comment saying nothing but "no", because it's the correct response. But you did a better job than I would have :P
- justAnotherNET 8y ago
  AMP is an attack on thr open web by Google. Google can/should rank faster pages however they want, but AMP is not the way to do it.
puranjay 8y ago
As a user, I hate AMP as well. I have plenty of data. Show me the whole page by default AMP seems to be solving for a problem that doesn't seem to exist anymore. Data is absurdly cheap now. And wi-fi is never hard to find
- kiriakasis 8y ago
  I need to ration about 40MB of data a day, which means i appreciate the effort
- hoschicz 8y ago
  You live in a little bubble: the developed world, where data and wi-fi are plentiful.
  - puranjay 8y ago
    I live in India. 4G is dirt cheap here. I pay less than $6 for 3 months of data capped at 2GB/day.
    - majewsky 8y ago
      WTF. I pay €8 per month for 1.5 GB / month, and that's pretty cheap by German standards.
      - puranjay 8y ago
        A big Indian conglomerate, Reliance, recently launched a service called 'Jio' that basically disrupted the entire mobile internet landscape. Broadband access has improved drastically as well in the last one year. I've gone from paying $40/month for a 16mbps connection with a data cap of 80GB to $12/month for a 50mbps connection with no data cap. It's come to a point where I don't think at all about data usage or my phone bill. Which is why I say that AMP is a solution in the wrong direction. If India can make data so cheap, it's only a matter of time before other markets follow suit. AMP is a solution to a dying problem, not an emerging one.
      - 8y ago
Kalium 8y ago
Having worked with trackers, and used the sorts of pages your colleagues prefer, I have arrived at a slightly different conclusion. Your colleagues are the problem that AMP is unfortunately necessary to solve. There are too many bloated, slow, design-forward and tracker-infested pages that take ten times as much memory and time as is required for the core content to be loaded and presented. This means the core of the user experience in AMP-land is generally much, much better. It didn't have to be this way. AMP is necessary because the web user experience has become atrocious. There have been many years, flush and bountiful with opportunities to improve this. Most websites remain blessed with this wondrous panoply.

da02 8y ago

What does a marketer do on a daily basis? Edit: Removed "Is it different than advertising?"

Ensorceled 8y ago
That's a little like asking "What does a blacksmith do? Is it different than making horseshoes?"
- da02 8y ago
  I know it was a "stupid" question. But, sometimes I do that in the hopes that someone will provide a guide to a better understanding of the topic. Plus, HN is a good place for anecdotal stuff and "war stories" that are hard to find on other parts of the WWW.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- ladzoppelin 8y ago
  Marketing is extremely technical these days, IMO. Learning to work with API's and even learning Python seems like it would really help anyone in most fields.
- ObsoleteNerd 8y ago
  I think it's a fair question. It's not an industry you hear lots about day to day, so the average person has no idea what's involved other than "they make ads". I've worked in large companies with 20+ person Marketing/PR departments and I'm not actually sure what their day to day job entails, and would totally be curious to know more. It's a major part of society these days, whether we love it or hate it. We all know IT has phone support roles, application development, system admins, project managers, etc... but I couldn't really tell you what all the different roles are in marketing.
manigandham 8y ago
Advertising is a subset marketing, specifically the communication part. The rest of marketing includes pricing, positioning, customer personas, etc.
Gustomaximus 8y ago
Its very diverse. Most people dont realise and I often see people say 'I want to work in marketing'' which is about as specific as saying 'I want to work in IT'. Even with advertising alone there is 1) buying it, 2) concepting the brand message 3) writing the specific content 4) creating how it looks 5) creating the material and 6) Placing it 7) project managing the process 8) analysing the results - all as separate fields. And within above people can specialise in specific categories like online, above the line (e.g. billboards), below the line offline (e.g. snail mail), TV, sponsorship etc And that's just getting ads live.... I googled 'types of marketing jobs' and read about 5 articles and they all have different guides about what makes marketing roles and none seems to cover it.... One article put sales in marketing which is a common misunderstanding of what marketing is, and several times I've seen companies put top sales management in charge of marketing because 'they can sell' which does not work as its a surprising different skill set. But here's a couple of articles to cover the common areas; https://www.localwise.com/a/313-21-types-of-marketing-jobs-to-unleash-your-creative-side https://www.localwise.com/a/313-21-types-of-marketing-jobs-t... https://marketingwit.com/types-of-marketing-jobs https://marketingwit.com/types-of-marketing-jobs Or you could go with the sometimes tech view... the guys that play with crayons and waste money :)
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  > above the line (e.g. billboards), below the line offline (e.g. snail mail) What is "the line"?
  - thaunatos 8y ago
    > What are ATL and BTL activities? They seem simple enough. Above The Line (ATL) advertising is where mass media is used to promote brands and reach out to the target consumers. These include conventional media as we know it, television and radio advertising, print as well as internet. This is communication that is targeted to a wider spread of audience, and is not specific to individual consumers. ATL advertising tries to reach out to the mass as consumer audience. > Below the line (BTL) advertising is more one to one, and involves the distribution of pamphlets, handbills, stickers, promotions, brochures placed at point of sale, on the roads through banners and placards. It could also involve product demos and samplings at busy places like malls and market places or residential complexes. http://www.theadvertisingclub.net/index.php/features/editorial/3256-difference-between-above-the-line-and-below-the-line-advertising http://www.theadvertisingclub.net/index.php/features/editori...
jackgolding 8y ago
I've worked in client side businesses with marketing teams of 5-30 people, two of those in marketing. A lot of the day to day the marketing teams do is manage outside agencies who do the creative, ad-buying, events and present that up to the stakeholders. There obviously is strategy work which is pre-campaign and is what the more senior marketers do (even though this is the most emphasized part in uni.) There are a few more functions which are more likely to not be subcontracted like CRM (emails), content (blogs etc), analytics, social media management and corporate comms. For your original question, the difference between this and advertising is an advertiser receives a brief and builds creatives appropriate to whatever channels they and the marketer choose. This is my experience and a few marketers have disagreed with this - obviously it varies between companies.
sharkweek 8y ago
Marketing can be super broad - but let's say you run a business that solves a problem for a specific type of customer. A marketer would find your marketable database of potential customers, work on messaging that appeals to the needs of the different audience types, find ways to target these audiences through channels like email, search marketing, content/SEO, social, etc., allocate budget broadly to test the different channels, and then turn dials accordingly dependent on where marketing budget has the best return. The daily tasks of this can be anything from producing new marketing collateral, testing new channel tactics, adjusting lead flow and lead distribution to a sales team, managing agency support, cozying up with PMs/engineers to get product features added, calm a sales manager who is pissy about why leads aren't flowing or being properly distributed, etc.
dazc 8y ago
I would broadly describe my role as a 'marketer' and, in all honesty, I add nothing of any value to my clients. It's a kind of wealth distribution, nothing more. I've had jobs in the past where I've been paid more for doing less. I've also experienced the exact reverse. I think a lot of people are in denial because they haven't had the life experience where they can say the same?
- rchaud 8y ago
  > It's a kind of wealth distribution, nothing more. If this is truly how you feel, why not try to add value for your clients instead of just taking the money and not contributing? I work in digital marketing and what I do, among other things involves: - conducting split testing experiments to evaluate which types of marketing copy or site UX lead to better conversion - evaluating client's web properties to improve SEO, things like semantic content layout, redirect types (301 v 302 etc), accessibility, logical information architecture - writing code for custom event tracking, implementing schema-based markup for better search engine discoverability - creating outreach campaigns via email, social and paid search channels, each of which requires has its own KPIs and require a fair amount of domain knowledge to implement and measure effectively - analyzing search trend data to figure out if the product copy language is similar to what users are searching for
propogandist 8y ago
Depends on the type of marketing, at a large corporation this is broken out into various functions as a lot of roles roll up into marketing. Some categories: Advertising - digital, physical Analytics - web traffic, roi analysis, data-mining, segmentation etc Brand marketing - ads, identity / messaging, etc Content - creating new content for the business around product/service to support promotional activity Email - "subscribe to my newsletter", but at enterprise scale and managing content for the millions of subscribers you have Product marketing - often a function in large enterprises, may be involved with things like messaging within a product Web - website, seo, design, architecture, UX etc all fall under marketing There's also a lot of functions that support many of these marketing roles, like the tech that powers all this, keeping things working smoothly, including integrations, compliance with stuff like GDPR, CASL etc

s17n 8y ago

The fact that marketers hate it can only be taken as evidence that it's a good thing.

wolco 8y ago
Marketers are the group who initially welcomed this. A shift is happening.
binomialxenon 8y ago
I get that this is a joke, but I also can't wait for AMP in its current form to die. Relatively lightweight pages = good… centralizing the web under Google's control = bad.
- philliphaydon 8y ago
  Yeah and the fact it doesn’t always work well. Trying to navigate and it isn’t working cos I need to break out of amp first.
  - stochastic_monk 8y ago
    It breaks most sites I use, unfairly promotes sites buying in toward the top, and I spend more data, time, and frustration than I would otherwise because I need to proceed to the actual page to get what I need. It’s a pure negative.
  - 14 8y ago
    This exactly...So frustrating clicking a web page and then inside the webpage parts of it are broken because you are actually at the amp site not the actual site. I haven't looked at how I can just avoid amp sites all together but if I had the choice I would.
  - Angostura 8y ago
    Waiting for Apple to introduce a 'show originals rather than AMP' default into iOS Safari.

squirrelicus 8y ago

I was going to tank the downvotes and just post a root comment saying nothing but "no", because it's the correct response. But you did a better job than I would have :P

justAnotherNET 8y ago
AMP is an attack on thr open web by Google. Google can/should rank faster pages however they want, but AMP is not the way to do it.

puranjay 8y ago

As a user, I hate AMP as well. I have plenty of data. Show me the whole page by default AMP seems to be solving for a problem that doesn't seem to exist anymore. Data is absurdly cheap now. And wi-fi is never hard to find

kiriakasis 8y ago
I need to ration about 40MB of data a day, which means i appreciate the effort
hoschicz 8y ago
You live in a little bubble: the developed world, where data and wi-fi are plentiful.
- puranjay 8y ago
  I live in India. 4G is dirt cheap here. I pay less than $6 for 3 months of data capped at 2GB/day.
  - majewsky 8y ago
    WTF. I pay €8 per month for 1.5 GB / month, and that's pretty cheap by German standards.
    - puranjay 8y ago
      A big Indian conglomerate, Reliance, recently launched a service called 'Jio' that basically disrupted the entire mobile internet landscape. Broadband access has improved drastically as well in the last one year. I've gone from paying $40/month for a 16mbps connection with a data cap of 80GB to $12/month for a 50mbps connection with no data cap. It's come to a point where I don't think at all about data usage or my phone bill. Which is why I say that AMP is a solution in the wrong direction. If India can make data so cheap, it's only a matter of time before other markets follow suit. AMP is a solution to a dying problem, not an emerging one.
    - 8y ago

Kalium 8y ago

Having worked with trackers, and used the sorts of pages your colleagues prefer, I have arrived at a slightly different conclusion. Your colleagues are the problem that AMP is unfortunately necessary to solve. There are too many bloated, slow, design-forward and tracker-infested pages that take ten times as much memory and time as is required for the core content to be loaded and presented. This means the core of the user experience in AMP-land is generally much, much better. It didn't have to be this way. AMP is necessary because the web user experience has become atrocious. There have been many years, flush and bountiful with opportunities to improve this. Most websites remain blessed with this wondrous panoply.