5 ms·

While we are planning our weekends, the rich are planning for doomsday in NZ

41 points by ekovarski 8y ago

fipple 8y ago
If it really gets to that point, the rich are going to get all their NZ compounds taken away from them by the people they hired to build and defend them. If you’re a Special Forces veteran hired to protect the Zuckerberg compound why wouldn’t you replace Zuckerberg with your cousin Eddie? What can Zuckerberg offer in a world where money is worthless?
- creaghpatr 8y ago
  A vision to connect every remaining human to relevant advertising?
- robomc 8y ago
  Also forget the personal security team turning on you - if the shit really goes down, it's pretty hard to imagine New Zealand's national sovereignty holding up. As if elites in Australia, or in the actual pacific mil powers, are just going to happily burn/drown in geohell while New Zealanders, with no real military, sit smugly in a still-comfortable climate / social situation.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    Well they are on an island, and it's not exactly a trivial task to plan, organize/recruit, and supply an amphibious invasion of a size necessary to completely subjugate a country the size of NZ (even if they have no standing army).
    - EdwardDiego 8y ago
      We have a standing army. Kiwis have fought with distinction in both world wars, the Korean and Vietnam wars, the Malayan crisis etc. etc. We're in Afghanistan, Iraq, we helped restore peace in East Timor... http://army.mil.nz http://army.mil.nz
      - craftyguy 8y ago
        So then it's even less trivial to take the island by force.
        EdwardDiego 8y ago
        Which island ;) We have two main ones.
        craftyguy 8y ago
        Pick one!
      - addicted 8y ago
        Yeah but is the NZ army gonna fight bravely for the rich of the rest of the world who have fled all the riff raff in their countries?
    - mr_toad 8y ago
      Around 4500 regular army, and another 2500 reserves; mechanised infantry, light armour, artillery and AT. Also a few small warships and patrol boats and a ~16 combat oriented helicopters. The main weakness would be the lack of any combat aircraft. An invading force with even a small aircraft carrier, or using long range bombers, could be a significant threat.
- telchar 8y ago
  If we're considering doomsday scenarios here, the answer to your question lies in the traditional tactics of tyrants. Hypothetically, Zuckerberg is going to have family members of the people guarding him locked away somewhere as hostages with other people set to guard them with the original guards kept out of direct communication with anyone but Zuckerberg or his trusted lieutenants. Cousin Eddie isn't going to take over when it means Cousin Franny gets to live less than or equal to how long Zuck lives. Horrible? yes. Rational? Also yes. EDIT: Remember this is a hypothetical. I'm not saying anything about Zuck's character or motivations here.
  - Paul_S 8y ago
    This is some crazy graph of bodybuards guarding each other's family members. If you kill your client then why on earth would his other employees give a shit and kill some defenceless wife and child to avenge their former master?
    - telchar 8y ago
      You could ask the same sorts of questions about why fiat money works (if this money has no intrinsic value why will the merchant give over his tangible products for it?). Yet people do terrible things for tyrants. I don't understand exactly why it works but then again I'm not a tyrant of any sort.
      - fipple 8y ago
        People do terrible things for tyrants (or their bosses more generally) because if their boss or tyrant is eliminated the resulting power vacuum will likely harm them with high likelihood (new ruler purges old loyalists) and reward them with low likelihood (they become the tyrant)
      - addicted 8y ago
        Fiat money works because when it’s working well, it is a win win for all concerned. When it isn’t working well, it fails dramatically (Zimbabwe, Argentina, etc). Fiat money (or any money, for that matter)only works till it works because it’s extremely useful for all concerned, and the alternative is a PITA. The doomsday scenario is hardly a win/win.
- EdwardDiego 8y ago
  Or just taken away by locals who don't like rich foreigners trying to buy our country. The fact that Peter Thiel got citizenship here is a disgrace.
- true_religion 8y ago
  Some rich people are genuinely charismatic. If he were alive, I doubt Steve Jobs would have too much trouble finding people to follow him even if money is worthless.
- aaron695 8y ago
  > If you’re a Special Forces veteran hired to protect the Zuckerberg compound why wouldn’t you replace Zuckerberg with your cousin Eddie? Then why wouldn't cousin Eddie replace you?... Because humans don't work this way. You need a leader and it's Zuckerberg. He then keeps those below him happy the best he can, they in turn do the same. If anyone turns, the others around him don't because they are happy and have no idea on this new leader 'Eddie'. Status Quo kept. Do you expect your current leader today to be overthrown? Probably not. Then why would leader Zuckerberg just be overthrown in a slightly different world? You don't need game theory to test this, look at failed states and private troops and see what happens. I'm not sure what you'd find but I suspect it'll be fairly ordered.
lucidguppy 8y ago
The best way to prepare for doomsday is to prepare everyone for doomsday and to keep civilization and the rule of law functional.
B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
There go the East Coast guys poking fingers in the Left Coast guys eyes. Watch for the payback in the next Marvel movie ...
xkcd-sucks 8y ago
Oh man imagine being the pilot that gets to hold these twats hostage above the Pacific ocean
xxgreg 8y ago
"New Zealand isn’t the best solution, he said, because a tsunami caused by an asteroid strike in the Pacific could submerge the island’s highest point." Highest point: Aoraki Mt Cook 3,724 m 12,218 ft That's a pretty big tsunami... https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz26258/Aoraki%2fMount-Cook/Canterbury https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz26258/Aoraki%2fMount-C... Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eltanin_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eltanin_impact "The size of a possible tsunami has been calculated. An asteroid that was 4 km (2.5 mi) in diameter falling onto the 5 km (3.1 mi) deep ocean would have blasted the water off the ocean floor for at least 60 km (37 mi), and made a wave over 200 m (660 ft) high on the southern end of Chile and the Antarctic Peninsula. After ten hours, waves around 35 m (115 ft) would reach Tasmania, Fiji and Central America, and the New Zealand east coast would have been washed with 60 m (200 ft) high waves. If the impact object was 1 km (0.6 mi) in diameter, the wave heights would be five times less.[3]"
EdwardDiego 8y ago
Haha, this article - the cartoon refers to "the island"... singular. Come on guys, you even mentioned Cook Strait, the stretch of ocean separating the North and South islands.
myrandomcomment 8y ago
Having done the military bit and currently doing the SV bit, I promise you in this situation the military experience is worth a heck of a lot more.
jillesvangurp 8y ago
Well, it worked for Nazi Germany. Loads of them ended up in South America after their Third Reich collapsed; which from their point of view was probably a doomsday scenario. Many of them had been hoarding their riches there for years before that and lived out their lives in luxury after the war. I think the key thing to look for though would be extradition laws. From that point of view, New Zealand looks a lot less attractive. Reminds me of a ted talk a few years ago: "The pitchforks are coming": https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocr...
moltar 8y ago
But how would one get to NZ? It isn’t exactly around the corner. Couldn’t pick a further place if tried.
- gt2 8y ago
  10 hour jet, the article suggests that and/or shows it in photos. If you're asking how you'd travel to there repeatedly, that's kind of the point -- its remote-ness is a feature.
sytelus 8y ago
This looks more like an escape plan if wealthy person was sure he would get convicted and end up spending years in prison. Scenario like Enron case where it’s CEO Ken Lay decided to die just days before the start of sentencing and his funeral was kept strictly private.
SpikeDad 8y ago
Did none of them read World War Z? Might be a good idea to see what happens when doomsday occurs with respect to secure compounds.
sunstone 8y ago
The idle rich need something that seems meaningful to occupy their time.

41 points by ekovarski 8y ago

If it really gets to that point, the rich are going to get all their NZ compounds taken away from them by the people they hired to build and defend them. If you’re a Special Forces veteran hired to protect the Zuckerberg compound why wouldn’t you replace Zuckerberg with your cousin Eddie? What can Zuckerberg offer in a world where money is worthless?

creaghpatr 8y ago
A vision to connect every remaining human to relevant advertising?
robomc 8y ago
Also forget the personal security team turning on you - if the shit really goes down, it's pretty hard to imagine New Zealand's national sovereignty holding up. As if elites in Australia, or in the actual pacific mil powers, are just going to happily burn/drown in geohell while New Zealanders, with no real military, sit smugly in a still-comfortable climate / social situation.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Well they are on an island, and it's not exactly a trivial task to plan, organize/recruit, and supply an amphibious invasion of a size necessary to completely subjugate a country the size of NZ (even if they have no standing army).
  - EdwardDiego 8y ago
    We have a standing army. Kiwis have fought with distinction in both world wars, the Korean and Vietnam wars, the Malayan crisis etc. etc. We're in Afghanistan, Iraq, we helped restore peace in East Timor... http://army.mil.nz http://army.mil.nz
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      So then it's even less trivial to take the island by force.
      - EdwardDiego 8y ago
        Which island ;) We have two main ones.
        craftyguy 8y ago
        Pick one!
    - addicted 8y ago
      Yeah but is the NZ army gonna fight bravely for the rich of the rest of the world who have fled all the riff raff in their countries?
  - mr_toad 8y ago
    Around 4500 regular army, and another 2500 reserves; mechanised infantry, light armour, artillery and AT. Also a few small warships and patrol boats and a ~16 combat oriented helicopters. The main weakness would be the lack of any combat aircraft. An invading force with even a small aircraft carrier, or using long range bombers, could be a significant threat.
telchar 8y ago
If we're considering doomsday scenarios here, the answer to your question lies in the traditional tactics of tyrants. Hypothetically, Zuckerberg is going to have family members of the people guarding him locked away somewhere as hostages with other people set to guard them with the original guards kept out of direct communication with anyone but Zuckerberg or his trusted lieutenants. Cousin Eddie isn't going to take over when it means Cousin Franny gets to live less than or equal to how long Zuck lives. Horrible? yes. Rational? Also yes. EDIT: Remember this is a hypothetical. I'm not saying anything about Zuck's character or motivations here.
- Paul_S 8y ago
  This is some crazy graph of bodybuards guarding each other's family members. If you kill your client then why on earth would his other employees give a shit and kill some defenceless wife and child to avenge their former master?
  - telchar 8y ago
    You could ask the same sorts of questions about why fiat money works (if this money has no intrinsic value why will the merchant give over his tangible products for it?). Yet people do terrible things for tyrants. I don't understand exactly why it works but then again I'm not a tyrant of any sort.
    - fipple 8y ago
      People do terrible things for tyrants (or their bosses more generally) because if their boss or tyrant is eliminated the resulting power vacuum will likely harm them with high likelihood (new ruler purges old loyalists) and reward them with low likelihood (they become the tyrant)
    - addicted 8y ago
      Fiat money works because when it’s working well, it is a win win for all concerned. When it isn’t working well, it fails dramatically (Zimbabwe, Argentina, etc). Fiat money (or any money, for that matter)only works till it works because it’s extremely useful for all concerned, and the alternative is a PITA. The doomsday scenario is hardly a win/win.
EdwardDiego 8y ago
Or just taken away by locals who don't like rich foreigners trying to buy our country. The fact that Peter Thiel got citizenship here is a disgrace.
true_religion 8y ago
Some rich people are genuinely charismatic. If he were alive, I doubt Steve Jobs would have too much trouble finding people to follow him even if money is worthless.
aaron695 8y ago
> If you’re a Special Forces veteran hired to protect the Zuckerberg compound why wouldn’t you replace Zuckerberg with your cousin Eddie? Then why wouldn't cousin Eddie replace you?... Because humans don't work this way. You need a leader and it's Zuckerberg. He then keeps those below him happy the best he can, they in turn do the same. If anyone turns, the others around him don't because they are happy and have no idea on this new leader 'Eddie'. Status Quo kept. Do you expect your current leader today to be overthrown? Probably not. Then why would leader Zuckerberg just be overthrown in a slightly different world? You don't need game theory to test this, look at failed states and private troops and see what happens. I'm not sure what you'd find but I suspect it'll be fairly ordered.

lucidguppy 8y ago

The best way to prepare for doomsday is to prepare everyone for doomsday and to keep civilization and the rule of law functional.

B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago

There go the East Coast guys poking fingers in the Left Coast guys eyes. Watch for the payback in the next Marvel movie ...

xkcd-sucks 8y ago

Oh man imagine being the pilot that gets to hold these twats hostage above the Pacific ocean

xxgreg 8y ago

"New Zealand isn’t the best solution, he said, because a tsunami caused by an asteroid strike in the Pacific could submerge the island’s highest point." Highest point: Aoraki Mt Cook 3,724 m 12,218 ft That's a pretty big tsunami... https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz26258/Aoraki%2fMount-Cook/Canterbury https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz26258/Aoraki%2fMount-C... Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eltanin_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eltanin_impact "The size of a possible tsunami has been calculated. An asteroid that was 4 km (2.5 mi) in diameter falling onto the 5 km (3.1 mi) deep ocean would have blasted the water off the ocean floor for at least 60 km (37 mi), and made a wave over 200 m (660 ft) high on the southern end of Chile and the Antarctic Peninsula. After ten hours, waves around 35 m (115 ft) would reach Tasmania, Fiji and Central America, and the New Zealand east coast would have been washed with 60 m (200 ft) high waves. If the impact object was 1 km (0.6 mi) in diameter, the wave heights would be five times less.[3]"

EdwardDiego 8y ago

Haha, this article - the cartoon refers to "the island"... singular. Come on guys, you even mentioned Cook Strait, the stretch of ocean separating the North and South islands.

myrandomcomment 8y ago

Having done the military bit and currently doing the SV bit, I promise you in this situation the military experience is worth a heck of a lot more.

jillesvangurp 8y ago

Well, it worked for Nazi Germany. Loads of them ended up in South America after their Third Reich collapsed; which from their point of view was probably a doomsday scenario. Many of them had been hoarding their riches there for years before that and lived out their lives in luxury after the war. I think the key thing to look for though would be extradition laws. From that point of view, New Zealand looks a lot less attractive. Reminds me of a ted talk a few years ago: "The pitchforks are coming": https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocr...

moltar 8y ago

But how would one get to NZ? It isn’t exactly around the corner. Couldn’t pick a further place if tried.

gt2 8y ago
10 hour jet, the article suggests that and/or shows it in photos. If you're asking how you'd travel to there repeatedly, that's kind of the point -- its remote-ness is a feature.

sytelus 8y ago

This looks more like an escape plan if wealthy person was sure he would get convicted and end up spending years in prison. Scenario like Enron case where it’s CEO Ken Lay decided to die just days before the start of sentencing and his funeral was kept strictly private.

SpikeDad 8y ago

Did none of them read World War Z? Might be a good idea to see what happens when doomsday occurs with respect to secure compounds.

sunstone 8y ago

The idle rich need something that seems meaningful to occupy their time.