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I recently learned about oulipo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulipo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulipo) who create works with constraints (sometimes severe)

I recently learned about oulipo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulipo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oulipo) who create works with constraints (sometimes severe) and the results are quite amazing. Lack of resources can be sometimes a blessing in disguise whether it is literature or hard business. I wonder why Americans don't do this (maybe they do, I don't know) - why borrow from banks (or VCs etc) with strict strings attached, instead of supporting one another based on trust? Obviously this won't work for millions of dollars, but this should work for 5/6 figure loans?

dv_dt 8y ago
There has been a long term decline of community banks, which might be the more American equivalent of this kind of lending. https://www.stlouisfed.org/Publications/Central-Banker/Fall-2010/The-Changing-Landscape-of-Community-Banking https://www.stlouisfed.org/Publications/Central-Banker/Fall-... The Small Business Administration also helps with loan guarantees. So the support is sort of there, but takes a different form, and maybe one could say the impersonal nature of it is both a strength and a weakness in comparison. Numbers of small businesses and their starts have been in decline too. I suspect this has to do with the difficulty of more and more Americans in attaining any savings from their wages (let alone enough to set aside to help capitalize a small business).
- justaguyhere 8y ago
  I suspect this has to do with the difficulty of more and more Americans in attaining any savings from their wages All the more important to support one another. Although, if everyone in a person's trust circle is more or less in the same boat, then tough luck :( With no meaningful support from gov/banks etc, people banding together to help each other might be an alternative. Some non profits are working in this space too. After Sandy, some orgs in NY were giving interest free loans to small biz people who lost their trucks etc.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    Americans are forced by law and convention into living a very specific kind of life. Lots of things they do and "own" require substantial investment of money and time. A regular (not minimum) wage is calibrated to just barely take care of all that, and modern marketing specializes in "educating" our tastes so that we can really tell the difference between e.g. $18k and $28k automobiles, to keep us on that treadmill even when we have plenty. Although on average they are poorer, residents of India have a great deal more freedom with respect to the costs of everyday life. No matter how basic their housing, transport, clothing, food, education, safety, etc. may be, they can always trade down if their situation or preference changes. Many lives lived happily in India would be largely illegal in USA.
reaperducer 8y ago
based on trust? Because there is a general lack of trust of people outside one's immediate family and a (usually very) small circle of friends.
scarejunba 8y ago
I think it's counter-intuitive but in a high trust society you don't have a need to build these networks. In a low-trust society (like India) you have to build trust networks. These trust networks are _much_ tighter, though, than the usual interactions in a high-trust environment out of necessity in participating in a low-trust environment. When you take these trust networks over to a high-trust society, they just act as additional leverage in your life. I know Indian guys who lent each other large five figure sums to help business deals go along and, the most surprising to me, had one take on a mortgage for another in Menlo Park! (The family it was for was a dual income software engineer family, just missing a credit history and starting capital).

dv_dt 8y ago

There has been a long term decline of community banks, which might be the more American equivalent of this kind of lending. https://www.stlouisfed.org/Publications/Central-Banker/Fall-2010/The-Changing-Landscape-of-Community-Banking https://www.stlouisfed.org/Publications/Central-Banker/Fall-... The Small Business Administration also helps with loan guarantees. So the support is sort of there, but takes a different form, and maybe one could say the impersonal nature of it is both a strength and a weakness in comparison. Numbers of small businesses and their starts have been in decline too. I suspect this has to do with the difficulty of more and more Americans in attaining any savings from their wages (let alone enough to set aside to help capitalize a small business).

justaguyhere 8y ago
I suspect this has to do with the difficulty of more and more Americans in attaining any savings from their wages All the more important to support one another. Although, if everyone in a person's trust circle is more or less in the same boat, then tough luck :( With no meaningful support from gov/banks etc, people banding together to help each other might be an alternative. Some non profits are working in this space too. After Sandy, some orgs in NY were giving interest free loans to small biz people who lost their trucks etc.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  Americans are forced by law and convention into living a very specific kind of life. Lots of things they do and "own" require substantial investment of money and time. A regular (not minimum) wage is calibrated to just barely take care of all that, and modern marketing specializes in "educating" our tastes so that we can really tell the difference between e.g. $18k and $28k automobiles, to keep us on that treadmill even when we have plenty. Although on average they are poorer, residents of India have a great deal more freedom with respect to the costs of everyday life. No matter how basic their housing, transport, clothing, food, education, safety, etc. may be, they can always trade down if their situation or preference changes. Many lives lived happily in India would be largely illegal in USA.

reaperducer 8y ago

based on trust? Because there is a general lack of trust of people outside one's immediate family and a (usually very) small circle of friends.

scarejunba 8y ago

I think it's counter-intuitive but in a high trust society you don't have a need to build these networks. In a low-trust society (like India) you have to build trust networks. These trust networks are _much_ tighter, though, than the usual interactions in a high-trust environment out of necessity in participating in a low-trust environment. When you take these trust networks over to a high-trust society, they just act as additional leverage in your life. I know Indian guys who lent each other large five figure sums to help business deals go along and, the most surprising to me, had one take on a mortgage for another in Menlo Park! (The family it was for was a dual income software engineer family, just missing a credit history and starting capital).