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This is quite interesting. From my German background I associate "sortieren" with alphabetic/numerical /calendaring order. Whereas "ordnen" ist more like "putti

This is quite interesting. From my German background I associate "sortieren" with alphabetic/numerical /calendaring order. Whereas "ordnen" ist more like "putting in order"/"categorize" or "sorting". So maybe it's as easy as blaming the Germans ;-)

jdmichal 8y ago
Except that -ieren ending on sortieren is indicative of an import from Romantic languages, typically French or Italian. [0] So it's likely that the English and German word both share French sortir as an imported root. Etymonline lists it as 14th century English, so too late to have inherited it through German. [1] [0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ieren#German https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ieren#German [1] https://www.etymonline.com/word/sort#etymonline_v_24299 https://www.etymonline.com/word/sort#etymonline_v_24299
- anticensor 8y ago
  > Except that -ieren ending on sortieren is indicative of an import from Romantic languages, typically French or Italian. Except that it is Romance or Romanic languages, not Romantic languages.
  - em-bee 8y ago
    although french and italian are seen as romantic by some :-)
- mattkrause 8y ago
  I think that’s a false cognate: in French, sortir means to leave or go/take out. Trier is means to sort or classify.
  - jdmichal 8y ago
    The meaning you listed seems to correlate across many Romance languages and caused me to start looking deeper. I found an Anglo-Norman dictionary [0], which lists meanings very much in line with those listed at Etymonline [1]. I can't explain the difference... The listed Latin root seems to allow the noted Anglo-Norman and later English meaning [2]. But modern Romance languages seem to have standardized a meaning similar to what you mention. There does seem to be widely-attested noun forms like French sorte, Italian sorta with a meaning along the lines of "type" or "kind". [0] http://www.anglo-norman.net/gate/ http://www.anglo-norman.net/gate/ [1] http://www.anglo-norman.net/D/sortir http://www.anglo-norman.net/D/sortir [2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortior#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortior#Latin
em-bee 8y ago
yes, but german also has the term "Sorte" which is used to categorize the variations of fruits and other stuff. the macintosh apple is one sort and the boskop apple is another. you can have different sorts of flour, etc. so the meaning of "sortieren" has changed, but it's definetly related to categorizing. greetings, eMBee

jdmichal 8y ago

Except that -ieren ending on sortieren is indicative of an import from Romantic languages, typically French or Italian. [0] So it's likely that the English and German word both share French sortir as an imported root. Etymonline lists it as 14th century English, so too late to have inherited it through German. [1] [0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ieren#German https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ieren#German [1] https://www.etymonline.com/word/sort#etymonline_v_24299 https://www.etymonline.com/word/sort#etymonline_v_24299

anticensor 8y ago
> Except that -ieren ending on sortieren is indicative of an import from Romantic languages, typically French or Italian. Except that it is Romance or Romanic languages, not Romantic languages.
- em-bee 8y ago
  although french and italian are seen as romantic by some :-)
mattkrause 8y ago
I think that’s a false cognate: in French, sortir means to leave or go/take out. Trier is means to sort or classify.
- jdmichal 8y ago
  The meaning you listed seems to correlate across many Romance languages and caused me to start looking deeper. I found an Anglo-Norman dictionary [0], which lists meanings very much in line with those listed at Etymonline [1]. I can't explain the difference... The listed Latin root seems to allow the noted Anglo-Norman and later English meaning [2]. But modern Romance languages seem to have standardized a meaning similar to what you mention. There does seem to be widely-attested noun forms like French sorte, Italian sorta with a meaning along the lines of "type" or "kind". [0] http://www.anglo-norman.net/gate/ http://www.anglo-norman.net/gate/ [1] http://www.anglo-norman.net/D/sortir http://www.anglo-norman.net/D/sortir [2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortior#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortior#Latin

em-bee 8y ago

yes, but german also has the term "Sorte" which is used to categorize the variations of fruits and other stuff. the macintosh apple is one sort and the boskop apple is another. you can have different sorts of flour, etc. so the meaning of "sortieren" has changed, but it's definetly related to categorizing. greetings, eMBee